Rankings

[NaitoKage]

So.. I doubt most would even care, but I guess I can point it out. Our new scheme for ranking is a mess..

So.. lets just make it simple. I propose no more bothering with confusing numbers for ranking.

Proposed list example:

Lieutenant:High enough to be able to pull some strings, but not focused on commanding their own unit. But capable of doing so for certain operations. Characters like Tarantulus,Blackarachnia,Orcariner,Dinobot,or Whitegrazer hold this sort position.

Sub commander:Commands their own personal unit. IE: the current Predacon Air command, or Glowstick's old special ops unit. However while they hold command of their own group, they do not hold command out of their division.Further more being outranked by the Commander role, means that sometimes personnel in these groups can be moved to other teams to even them out accordingly. (Example: if Megatron feels he wants certain fliers to go with certain groups, he can take team members out of Terrorsaur's group and put them into others to balance skills out. )

Personal units can be made by anyone as long as they have someone willing to follow them. Terrorsaur fits this position currently, and I imagine Ironclaw plans to set up the same, but will have to have others that are willing to trust or follow him to do so. This also is the case for Terrorsaur, if he wishes to add other fliers to his group, it's only if they're willing. He can't just demand they all work for him.

Major: These would be influential characters. IE: Inferno, Rhinox, Rattrap. Anyone considered trusted by their leader and few who the others wouldn't listen to. The second in command or someone capable of leading when Optimus or Megatron are not around.

Commander:Megatron and Optimus take these titles. Obviously supreme commander over everyone and their arrangements.

As for everyone else, you don't need to worry about any of that stuff. If you want that sort of stuff, you can have your characters prove themselves for it. Out of any of these, the sub commander is probably easiest and hardest to get depending on your character relations, while Lieutenant is possible based off your character's reliability to their group. Major is just a step above that.

All positions posted are just for example, as Phoenix or OOP can alter them anyway they want. Players can also opt out of the positions if they don't want that sort of responsibility. Certain other characters are also not eligible for these positions. IE:Saberfang,Umbra,Arachnitron,and Tantrum.

Comments, complaints? lets hear em'.

[Blackrosefencer]

Okay so if I have this right:

Commander: Megatron and Optimus

Major: Any character who would be considered in command should Megatron and Optimus be out of commission for whatever reason....if this were a business or a company, then this would be like the assistant director of a company....

Sub-commander: The leader of each little division of the teams. Like, if this were a business/company, then they would be the department heads/managers....right? Like the "Head of the Fliers Department".....These characters lead small units into battle or go on missions leading small units....

Lieutenant: Just to stick with the analogy of a business: Assistant to the department head. Like if the sub commander of the Predacon fliers were leading a group and Megatron wanted a secondary group of fliers to go do something else, then the lieutenant would lead that secondary group?

And then....everyone else. I think this category needs a title....less degrading then "Drone" or "Pawn".....like how about "Field Units" or "Soldier" or something like that....they have no authority to lead a group, but could one day if they prove themselves worthy of a promotion.

Another question....if a "major" is considered second in command....why not just have a title of "Second in Command" then and put one character from each faction there? Just out of curiosity....

I'm not sure about others, but I know if we agree on something like this, then when the time comes it would help me to see a run down of characters we would put in each of the proposed category listed by faction. And name all characters not like what you did which is: "Characters such as so-and-so and so-and-so and other characters like him." I feel like there might be some disagreement as to who constitutes as "other characters like them."

[NaitoKage]

I could add the rankings to the Profile index so it'd be easy to find which has their function. I only put the list like that for examples of which characters suit those sort of functions. None of this is in stone. The rankings will most likely be set by OOP and Phoenix's decisions.

As for second in command, the problem with that is Rhinox and Rattrap literally swap that position sometimes. Inferno is undoubtedly second in command of the predacons though. But I guess "third" in command could be an option..or Colonel and major.

And yes, a Lieutenant basically has the ability to lead any small group of characters assigned to them, like a secondary group of fliers. So.. if Megatron wanted two groups of fliers, he could have Terrorsaur lead one, and Nemesis lead another.

I wasn't really going to go with drone or pawn, though.. honestly Megatron sees every piece on his chessboard as a Pawn. Soldier or field units does work fine, though that's also used by some as their function. Drones are typically more the mechanical drone or AI computer.

Edit: Also to point out, while all these ranks sound fancy, really the most important rank would be soldiers or field units. You can't lead an army of yourself..unless you're an Insecticon. They really shouldn't be seen as pawns, but as extensions of yourself with a variety of skills that fill the areas you may not be able to do. Ofcourse motivation and morale are also important, but that's more in the commander and sub commander stuff.

[Mystrea]

Sub-commanders....hmpf, I don't see the point in that position. I agree with Blackrose, one second in command and its only fiction, we could appoint a character. And in my opinion, Rattrap would be second in command. Also lieutenants is a good idea, have a couple of those per faction. Majors....again don't see that point, not necessary to have that many layers. I think it should be, Commander, Second in command and team leaders. Example:
C : Optimus
SIC : Rattrap/ maybe Whitegrazer
TL : Dinobot.

[NaitoKage]

Er.. doesn't having Rattrap and Maybe Whitegrazer at the same time go against your argument of a having only one second in command? But it could be limited down to Commander and second in command. Not sure I could see Whitegrazer as a second in command.

[Mystrea]

Sorry NK, I should have made it more clear Rattrap OR Whitegrazer. And I have no idea who is going to be second in command for the maximals.

[WorpeX]

I kinda like the nondescript numbers which make no sense.

[Blackrosefencer]

I could add the rankings to the Profile index so it'd be easy to find which has their function. I only put the list like that for examples of which characters suit those sort of functions. None of this is in stone. The rankings will most likely be set by OOP and Phoenix's decisions.

Yes, I'm aware that you probably were just using this list as an example. I just meant when the time came to do this list for real, we should be a lot more specific. Not that I was doubting that we would be....

As for second in command, the problem with that is Rhinox and Rattrap literally swap that position sometimes. Inferno is undoubtedly second in command of the predacons though. But I guess "third" in command could be an option..or Colonel and major.

That is a good point....but the whole point of doing this would be to eliminate confusion. Isn't it a little confusing having TWO second in commands? It's just a game; it's not the show, so we can deviate from the show in terms of rank. Maybe OOP should just choose which character has been called on most often for that duty and pick ONE second in command. Then, whoever she doesn't pick could be the next rank down from that.

I feel like maybe that's why they had numbers. Number 1 is the one in charge, number 2 gets the job if number 1 can't do it, number 3 does the job if number 2 can't do it and so on and so forth.....

I wasn't really going to go with drone or pawn, though.. honestly Megatron sees every piece on his chessboard as a Pawn. Soldier or field units does work fine, though that's also used by some as their function. Drones are typically more the mechanical drone or AI computer.

Edit: Also to point out, while all these ranks sound fancy, really the most important rank would be soldiers or field units. You can't lead an army of yourself..unless you're an Insecticon. They really shouldn't be seen as pawns, but as extensions of yourself with a variety of skills that fill the areas you may not be able to do. Ofcourse motivation and morale are also important, but that's more in the commander and sub commander stuff.

I don't disagree with you, but I think calling them a "drone" or "pawn" gives people that impression. It might cause too many people to be pursuing higher level positions to avoid having their character being called a "drone" or a "pawn." It's basically, as you pointed out, one of the most important ranks in the game. That's where most of the players should be. So I don't think it should be ignored. It might give people the idea that their character is unimportant since they don't have a rank.

Sub-commanders....hmpf, I don't see the point in that position. I agree with Blackrose, one second in command and its only fiction, we could appoint a character. And in my opinion, Rattrap would be second in command. Also lieutenants is a good idea, have a couple of those per faction. Majors....again don't see that point, not necessary to have that many layers. I think it should be, Commander, Second in command and team leaders. Example:
C : Optimus
SIC : Rattrap/ maybe Whitegrazer
TL : Dinobot.

1) Well, you have proposed 3 positions and NK proposed 4....so really you've only proposed to eliminate one position. One less position isn't really going to be that much different.

2) I think NK's point tho is that 4 or 5 positions is much more manageable than what it was....which was like 10.

and 3) Sub-commanders are essentially team leaders just you're calling them "Team Leaders" and NK called them "Sub-commanders." They're the same thing.

I think sub-commanders is actually fitting. I mean this isn't a corporate office, this is an army of robots. Sub-commander is a much more appropriate title. And think of it this way: There are many times when the team splits up to go in different directions. That is essentially the purpose of a sub-commander. When the fliers are in the skies, the sub-commander is in charge of the fliers...he's taking orders from the commander while keeping his troops in line. Then you have a sub-commander for the ground units and maybe even for the technicians/engineers/whatever you want to call them.

Having lieutenants (which I spell wrong every single time) is also helpful. They are other bots who can hold positions of authority, but they're just not called on as often as a sub-commander. They might be called on, for instance, if the sub-commander is otherwise occupied or if the commander wants to send two groups of fliers in or send in two ground units...one to come at the enemy from the front and one to try to flank them. He'd have to have others in authority who he can call on every now and again for secondary/minor missions.

If anything the only position I can see not being necessary is that of "major." I think we should name someone from each faction a "Second in Command," but having a whole category of others who fit that description is really unneccesary. And if you think about it: It doesn't even really seem like it's own category. If Rattrap is Second in Command, then isn't he also, effectively, a sub-commander at the same time? If Optimus were going to send in two units, he'd probably call on the second in command to command the second one before he called on any of the other sub-commanders (depending on the type of unit). But there can't be more than one second in command in my opinion.

I, personally, am not opposed to switching things up with a new system...nor am I opposed to keeping it the same way. But this is what I think the titles should be if we did change it:

- Commander
- Sub-commanders (split up team into units...ground, areal, and whatever else)
- Lieutenants (one per unit or more if necessary)
- Field Units (or some other similar name....would constitute anyone who was not able to hold an authoritative position)

If you really want a category of "those we cannot leave to their own devices or they'll blow stuff up" then that could be another possibility.

But pick ONE sub-commander from each faction who is the "Second in Command" who commands in the commander's absence.

Soldier or field units does work fine, though that's also used by some as their function.

True.....then maybe we need to be a bit more specific as far as functions. Like instead of just "field unit" or "soldier"....maybe they should be like "munitions expert" or "demolition expert" or something of the like if they are just some random soldier. Like give everyone a specific job. That's a whole other topic....

[Mystrea]

Lol Blakrose you pretty much said what I said but with different terminology. And tbh I technically put 3 positions but it was more than that I was not really including field units. Whilst that can be implemented it doesn't have that much affect on the structure. Now 'army' has been mentioned and ranks which seemed to have just been pulled out a hat. I was just using terms which a bit self explanatory.

[NaitoKage]

Some of those ranks were mentioned in the show, but honestly yes. Transformer ranking has always been pulled out of the writer's hats. Number system gets confusing considering there's more then 10 characters on each side and no one wants a rank of 1. *L*

[Blackrosefencer]

Lol Blakrose you pretty much said what I said but with different terminology. And tbh I technically put 3 positions but it was more than that I was not really including field units. Whilst that can be implemented it doesn't have that much affect on the structure. Now 'army' has been mentioned and ranks which seemed to have just been pulled out a hat. I was just using terms which a bit self explanatory.

Well no, you didn't want Lieutenants (no spell check on phone....still have no idea how to spell that word) remember? I had that on my list and did NOT have second in command. Well, at least, I did not have it as its own separate category since, in my mind, anyone who would be second in command would also be a sub-commander.

I also did try and point out that sub-commander and team leader are pretty much the same....

And yeah, as NK said, the number thing was completely random. Actually, a lot of the things the writers did were completely random. They just made it up as they went along. There are probably a lot of contradictions through out the series for that reason.

[Mystrea]

I actually said I liked the idea of Lieutenants, I just changed the name to Team Leader, because Lieutenant doesn't really mean anything to anyone here. Oh and TL and sub-commander are not the same thing at all. It's another why why I said Second in Command because it defines the role better. With these large numbers you wouldn't expect Optimus to be telling each and every bot what to do all the time. When Optimus or the SIC go on a mission with a team, say of 7 bots. There should be one other who micro managers the team and Optimus or the SIC are just managing the mission as a whole.

[NaitoKage]

Yep, sounds like you guys are getting my thinking behind the idea of changing the rankings. We just need an agreement on the names.

We could probably still use both soldier and field unit, but it'd probably be used to define functionality. As some characters are more suited towards front line combat, while others are more suited towards support roles like spying or engineer work.

[NaitoKage]

Also for those interested, this is how I would impliment the listing for ranks, in the profile section.

So it'd look kinda like this.

Glossary:
Commander
SiC=Second in command
LT=Lieutenant
Sub=Sub Commander
S=Soldier
FT=Field Unit

Maximal:
Airazor S
Aerostriker S
Aurora FT
Cheetor S
Dinobot LT
Feralnight S
Frilla FT
Ironclaw S
Orcariner LT
Optimus Primal Commander
Rattrap SiC/Sub
Rhinox Sub
Saberfang S
Silverbolt S
Silverstreak FT
Tigatron S
Wintersong S
Whitegrazer LT

Predacon:
Arachnitron FT
Banshee FT
Blackarachnia LT
Buster S
Cecaelia S
Inferno SiC/Sub
Manterror S
Megatron Commander
Nemesis LT
Onyx S
Quickstrike S
Scaleblade S
Sonar FT
Starshadow S
Steelclaw LT
Tantrum S
Tarantulus LT
Terra FT
Terrorsaur Sub
Umbra FT
Venatrix S
Waspinator S

[Mystrea]

The Maximals looks good to me.