Religious Debate Thread

7Knight-Wolf · Unread post by **7Knight-Wolf** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:31 pm

Razor One wrote:
While there are someChristians that believe the bible is literal, there are others that believe it to be allegorical.

Being Atheistic myself, I feel that the bible does have some good lessons to teach provided that the stories therein are not taken literally.

Back on the topic at hand, the whole "Died for three days and comes back to life" mythos is even older then most think appearing quite often in ancient texts.

The reason for this can be seen in astronomy. During the winter, the sun sets lower and lower in the sky. At it's lowest point, the winter solstice occurs, and in the northern hemisphere, occurs at any point from December 20 to December 23. After this, the sun begins to rise higher in the sky as summer approaches. For the southern hemisphere, this occurs June 20 - 23.

Ancient people were a lot closer and in tune with the rhythms of nature then people are today. Survival of course was one of the primary motivating factors for this. The sun rising higher in the sky meant the promise of new life or "Rebirth" and as a result developed very strong significance in ancient communities.

You're right that some Christains onlt believe parts of the Bible...there are a lot of christians who are "theistic evoltuionists" meaning they believe that men came from monkeys (

) but they also believe that God created the monkeys in the first place.

I definitely believe that the Bible is true, including the six-day creation, so there. Somebody mentioned something about proving that Christ was real...there's no way to prove it, you're right. Just like there's no way to prove love or any other feeling or emotion. For me, God/Jesus is sort of like an emotion in the sense that I can't see Him, but I FEEL Him.

artemis-lady-warrior · Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:41 pm

well that's getting a bit off topic. I thought this was about beast wars... incidently the Bible says man was created in God's own image. If people think God created the monkeys and they became humans then they practically believe that God was some kind of ape. >.<

Getting back on topic. Yeah there is those two episodes at the end of season 3 with all the revolation stuff in them... I wonder if it was from like The Holy Book of Primus or something. XD

7Knight-Wolf · Unread post by **7Knight-Wolf** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:10 pm

artemis-lady-warrior wrote:well that's getting a bit off topic. I thought this was about beast wars... incidently the Bible says man was created in God's own image. If people think God created the monkeys and they became humans then they practically believe that God was some kind of ape. >.<

Oh man, I know! Theistic evolutions have no sense of logic! I don't see how they can believe in evolution AND trust God at the same time... it makes no sense.

Oh, and sorry about getting off topic. I get carried away when I talk about God, and I could keep going! I mean, he's so cool. But I know this is a Beast Wars forum and not a religious debate.

Anyway, I believe that in season three, Optimus says that the book is the Covenant Primus, of which there are only two copies left.

artemis-lady-warrior · Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:29 pm

and Primus is kind of like their "god" plus he makes up the planet they live in....... O.O PRIMUS HAS A FREAKIN' ORGANIC CORE! Grr stupid Beast Machines *goes after it with a chainsaw* BW Screwed everything up!

I see now why Unicron wants to eat the planet. It's got a soft and chewy center. XD >.<

Wonko The Sane · Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 pm

artemis-lady-warrior wrote:well that's getting a bit off topic. I thought this was about beast wars... incidently the Bible says man was created in God's own image. If people think God created the monkeys and they became humans then they practically believe that God was some kind of ape. >.<

Not exactly,when they say 'God created them in his own image',it's what the image He thought of,not what He looked like.

Now,I would like to continue with the Symbolism of their Beast Modes,but this Topic is already going and going further from the Bible.

SkyxDB · Unread post by **SkyxDB** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:54 pm

Speaking of that, It makes me wonder if Megs was trying to play God or Primus in BM, since he did say he wanted to recreate Cybertron in his own image.

artemis-lady-warrior · Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:50 pm

i believe so and look what happened to HIM XD

Wonko I'm sure "His own image" means "HIS own image" I mean he created angels and they look like humans. I'm sure he's not an idiot who thinks "Hmm I'll start out with my humans looking like apes and gradually work on how they look as things go on."

*dies laughing*

Wait.... in Beast Wars the Vok created the earth as an "experiment" so that must mean that the Vok respresent God in the show! Ow my brain hurts! That's too much to think about at once!

SkyxDB · Unread post by **SkyxDB** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:04 pm

Same here, but honestly the subject of reglion always makes my brain hurt.

Okay this might be a little off topic, but you know how God is normaly portrayed as human like in appearance. Well in a manga I read called Angel Sanctuary, all the angels and most of the demons looked human like, but in that story, God was a computer like being.

artemis-lady-warrior · Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:14 pm

I highly doubt God is the most advanced Dell ever made.

That's too much like the game Star Ocean: Till the end of time. When the universe is nothing but a giant computer game created by some psychotic guy.
Don't worry. The universe is not the Eternal Sphere.
Manga is fiction. Don't take it literally. XD

I wonder.... Could Dinobot be Jesus like as well because he died so that the "sub humans" could live? He DIED for Us! O.O

SkyxDB · Unread post by **SkyxDB** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 pm

I know, I'm just saying that's how he was portrayed in the story, a computer-like being that liked to experiment. Also I've never played Star Ocean, but it's one I'm thinking about playing. Also I think Angel Sanctuary came before Star Ocean, because the manga came out in Japan back in 1996.

And I guess Dinobot could be Jesus like in a way, and he die for human kind. But don't tell him in dying for us, he also insured that fangirls would live on to write Yaoi fics about him and Rattrap. He'd probaly die all over again. XD

Unread post by **Razor One** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:31 am

artemis-lady-warrior wrote: Wonko I'm sure "His own image" means "HIS own image" I mean he created angels and they look like humans. I'm sure he's not an idiot who thinks "Hmm I'll start out with my humans looking like apes and gradually work on how they look as things go on." *dies laughing*

Wait.... in Beast Wars the Vok created the earth as an "experiment" so that must mean that the Vok respresent God in the show! Ow my brain hurts! That's too much to think about at once!

One important thing to remember is that mankind as a whole is Incredibly egocentric. For thousands of years humans presumed the Earth was at the center of the universe and was flat because that suited human sensibilities. The Earth and mankind were the most important, and thus at the center. The Earth had to be flat because it looked flat, and a round earth simply didn't make sense.

Naturally we discovered that this was not so. However, that Egocentrism lives on anyhow. When we think of a god we think of him as possessing a human form. When we consider aliens we think of a very human like figure with perhaps a modified forehead.

Even if said aliens have nothing biologically or chemically similar to humanity, we still stubbornly envision them as humanoid. We consider ourselves the most intelligent life form in existence and that because aliens haven't come to us, there must be none out there at all.

Why must we assume that god has a human form? Because it is written in the bible? The bible was not written by god. It was written by men. Translated through several different languages over a period of thousands of years. The bible today is not the same as it was 1500 years ago.

As for theistic evolutionists, I'm fairly certain their standing is that god is the "Guiding Force" behind evolution and that the story of Genesis is allegorical, which makes sense, since I find it highly doubtful that anyone from 2,000 years ago could count or conceive of a billion years, let alone fifteen billion. We cant either for that matter. It's a gulf of time so immense that no living being on earth could properly comprehend it.

In any case, I think we should end the discussion of God, Evolution and so forth there as the topic is sensitive, off topic, and has explosive potential.

Back to the topic at hand...

I'm fairly certain the earth formed naturally in the Beast Wars Universe and that the Raw Energon present was seeded there by the Vok.

The faction symbols could be interepreted as the "Mark of the Beast" from revelations:

He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

– Rev. 13:16-17

artemis-lady-warrior · Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:30 am

Yeah but the Bible said the earth was round and it orbitted the sun. XD I can't quote chapter and verse but I saw it in there when i read it....

SkyxDB you know how often I come by stuff like that? No offense but DBXRT fics and pics make me gag. They're friends, that's about it. Too many people have too much time on their hands.

I'm not sure the fraction symbols can be considered that because both sides have them unless the Predacons have "the mark" and the maximals have the "seal of the believers" cuz that's mentioned as well.
If we pick down the whole show we'd probably find soemthing for every little detail.

7Knight-Wolf · Unread post by **7Knight-Wolf** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:58 am

artemis-lady-warrior wrote:i believe so and look what happened to HIM XD

Wonko I'm sure "His own image" means "HIS own image" I mean he created angels and they look like humans. I'm sure he's not an idiot who thinks "Hmm I'll start out with my humans looking like apes and gradually work on how they look as things go on." *dies laughing*

Wait.... in Beast Wars the Vok created the earth as an "experiment" so that must mean that the Vok respresent God in the show! Ow my brain hurts! That's too much to think about at once!

Sorry to be "explosive" again, Razor, but I want to add something else about God! All jokes aside, Artemis, I believe that "His own image" actually reffers to community. God is a three-in-one entity, a community. He created humans to live in a deep relationship of community with each other.

artemis-lady-warrior · Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:25 am

well we'll never know for sure. Until we die.... You might be right.

SkyxDB · Unread post by **SkyxDB** » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:44 am

SkyxDB you know how often I come by stuff like that? No offense but DBXRT fics and pics make me gag. They're friends, that's about it. Too many people have too much time on their hands.

I know, I see thier relationship as more brotherly. It was just a little fan humor. One in a while I like to poke fun at the stuff us fan do to characters and that includes both yaoi and non-yoai fan. Heck, I'll even poke fun at that stuff that's I'm quilty of.

Anyway I never really noticed all of these Biblical references in Beast Wars. But when you think about, a lot of stories are probably like that.