Religious Debate Thread

[Beastbot]

Do you mind if I ask what kind of tree it is? My city has a population of over 1 million now, and a literal forest running through it yet our smog isn't that bad yet. I'm curious now if it's because we don't have that species of tree? However, either way I will certainly reflect on what you've said and research it if possible.

Skimming through the relevant chapter in the book, I see cedars mentioned, particularly mountain cedars, properly called Ashe junipers, which are particularly prevalent in the U.S. Southwest. There's actually a website it mentions, peopleagainstcedars.com, though I haven't looked at that website in detail. It doesn't mention specifically what kind of trees in the Great Smokey Mountains are responsible for its smog, just that "over 150 types of trees" there are responsible. Let's see, other good quotes/facts from skimming....
"Approximately 80 percent of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation"- Ronald Reagan (Hydrocarbons are a key ingredient of smog, by the way, and it has since been shown that Reagan underestimated this percentage.)
-Hydrocarbon emissions have been eliminated from the tailpipe output of cars (in the U.S.) since 1975.
-Georgia pines are another culprit, it also lists eucalypts contributing to smog in Australia
-The natural production of hydrocarbons isoprene and monoterpene went up 17 percent from the '80s to the '90s, equal to three times the reduction of those emissions from industry and cars over that same time period. However, more trees were planted during that time period. (We now have significantly more trees than we did 100, or even 30, years ago.)
-As emissions from major industrial pollutants have gone down in the U.S. over the last 30 years, asthma incidences have doubled

It doesn't say anything SPECIFICALLY about Canadian trees, so that could be why you aren't seeing any real amount of smog, though the book is focused almost exclusively on U.S. politics, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I mean, there are a lot of variables that involve the proliferation of smog, as well-- wind direction/intensity, temperature, etc.

Umm nobody lives more than once... reincarnation is a myth. When you die you go to heaven or hell. you don't come back to live again.

Well, even though I don't believe in it myself, to be fair this isn't something you can prove or disprove. The whole idea behind reincarnation isn't that you come back as YOURSELF, you come back as something/one else, with no real memory of your past life/lives.

[Nurann]

Thank you Beastbot.

Artemis, if you haven't done so already, please check your private messages.

[artemis-lady-warrior]

Nurann I don't know what your problem is but I wish you'd stop thinking I'm picking on you. Because I'm not.

[7Knight-Wolf]

I don't believe in reincarnation either, but I can't disprove it scientifically.

No offense to Nuran, but I actually get a kick out of the reincarnation idea. I know of a certain teacher who believed that she would reincarnate as a Dolphin!

[Nurann]

Hey, dolphins are very intelligent beings! I wouldn't mind being one.

Lol 7knight it's all right, I don't mind joking about it. Sometimes being in a minority takes a sense of humor just to get past the ignorance.

Anyways, that's my take on things. Anyone else want to join my sharing challenge?

[Blazemane]

So Nurann, we can't disprove reincarnation. But to be blunt, it seems, at least to me, to be somewhat... randomly founded.

I guess what I'm getting at is, since you do believe in multiple lives, what evidences have you found that support this idea?

[Sinead]

All right. Here is my long-overdue reply, and I’ll try to make it as brief as possible to catch up with a lot of things that have been said.

To start with, I’ll ask some questions, and I ask you to really consider them as I’ve been considering the other posts on the board, testing them through my mind and my belief system. So give these some thought before you really bash them, aye? ^.^

~> Why does everyone assume that ADULT animals were transported upon Noah’s Ark? Couldn’t they have been infant or newly-weaned animals?

~> Was Lucy’s skeleton found all deposited in one area, like all other normal skeletons of “humans” past? Furthermore, do all the DNA of her bones match up completely? And if nobody has looked into that, don’t you think that should be a very good thing to do?

Razor, about the comment I made about a change in the atmosphere . . . It’s theorized that there was a canopy between the earth and the sun, effectively masking the Earth to look like any of our gaseous co-planets. Under the canopy would have been a veritable greenhouse effect, which would have caused massive plants and animals to grow. Much like the theorized Jurassic Period, where there were a lot of BIG dinosaurs, plants, and insects. That also indicates that there was a different atmosphere, probably with a higher carbon dioxide level. With the bible saying that the heavens split open, it signifies that the moisture in the upper canopy came down as rain. And God didn’t put the canopy back up again, as one can tell by being able to see the stars, moon, and heavenly bodies.

This also explains why dinosaurs aren’t here with us today. They suffocated because the atmosphere wasn’t what they were used to, or otherwise, they died out via the flood. As far as the intolerance of fresh or salt water, well, who knows. I never claimed to know everything about the flood or why some creatures are designed a certain way.

*chuckles* Well, a lot of people have tried to understand the ways of God and have drastically fallen short.

Artemis, I totally meant Razor. He got under my skin. I’m sorry that it sounded like I was referencing you.

W00T FOR GIDEON BIBLES! They’re the ones you find in your hotel rooms. And they’re totally not easy to read. If you really want to start getting a feel for the Bible and its literature, read a paraphrase, such as The Message or the English Standard Version, and read the book of John first. There’s a lot of stuff in the Bible that’s hard to understand. Revelation, Ezekiel, and the History books, for example and for varying reasons. The Gospel of John is a good place to start, or Psalms. One is a story, the other a songbook with amazing poetry.

~> Blazemane . . . your long post and your three reasons why God exists is totally blowing me outta the water. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And as a sister-in-faith, what you wrote really is solid, firm, and thorough. Wow. I’m blown away by it! I really haven’t seen many (yes, professional!) documents that simplify things in the way that you just have! I’m very, very impressed and grateful for the brilliant mind that God has given you! Wow!

~> *blushes* Woah, Beastbot, thank you. Yeah, it’s definitely been a very crazy but cool thing to be here at my college and learning so much about the Bible, about Christian doctrine and most especially, about where I want to go in life. Very, very cool. If you want to know more about what’s REALLY going down at the school, and what I’ve been studying, feel free to PM me and I’d be happy to fill you in!

Also, I like the way how you really get down to the bare bones of the situation and your belief in Creationism.

What about yourself? If God made you, why? Why are you so special? Aren't you curious as to why He made you in the first place? Why would God make you just to worship Him? Isn't He above being selfish? In that case, couldn't He have made you for some other reason? I'd like to find out why I'm around, but realism states that I'm only going to live to be about 100. You said yourself nobody dies being that wise. So what's a little extra time around here to find out?

The “Christianese” of it is that God made me to glorify Him in everything that I do, and in all things that I put my hand upon. For me, personally, all that I do is to help others through counseling. I know why He made me, and I am very, very happy to know that His will for my life has this amazing twist to it that I’m not just about to reveal to the whole world. And in my opinion, I have to disagree with your idea that God may be selfish. You respect your parents, right? You honor them for being those who brought you into this world. In one regard, that’s a very simple version of what God wants, from what I can tell. He created us, gave us a purpose, showed us that His Son was brutally murdered and yet raised from being very dead so that we wouldn’t have to die and go to hell because of our mistakes, our sins and shortcomings.

I don’t believe that our ONLY purpose in life is to worship God. Heck, there’s a LOT more to life than just eating and drinking. There’s friendships between people, some of which turn into relationships. And if it’s “The One,” then a marriage is in order. And of course, children come from a marriage, or from most marriages. There is working and there is helping those who need someone to support them in their need. These are only a few of the things that come to mind.

Have you ever just known something without knowing where you learned it?

Yeap. But later in life and in my walk with God, I learned that it was because He revealed it to me so that I could help others by either confirming what they already knew, or to help solidify something that had been slightly more than ambiguous to their way of thinking. It’s happened through others towards me. God moves in mysterious ways. I don’t find Him to be defined by human logical thought processes, because he is so beyond what we can understand until we stand before God. Even then, we’d only be able to take in so much. Heck, there are times where I’m in worship at school and can’t even pull my face up offa the carpet I’m so struck by how awesome God is. Dude. That carpet is musty sometimes, too.

Reincarnation sounds cool on one level, but on a totally other level, I really don’t think that I would ever want to live more than one lifetime. There just doesn’t seem to be much of a draw to living more than once. I would rather struggle for my entire life to do whatever I can to show others just how much God loves me, and then come to peace with Jesus taking me home, pleased with my efforts and giving me rest from my Earthly life.

And that’s pretty much it from my end. I have to get to bed and sleep. But before I do, I wish to address two things:

1- Please keep on topic about the subject of discussion about religion! Media and America are irrelevant! . . . well . . . they can be discussed elsewhere. XD They’re not THAT irrelevant yet.

2- IMPORTANT NOTICE: If you are going to be publicly disrespectful at each other on the boards, and I’m saying this as a general blanket statement, and if you cannot be respectful of each other while on here, I will shut this thread down, and any talk about religion can be continued in private. If you have a problem with someone on the board, don’t air it out in public. Do it privately or keep your words to yourself.

I will not make an announcement like this again. If there is one more disrespectful and/or nasty comment, regardless of hormonal excuses, I will lock this thread. I hope that I have made myself clear on this matter. This is for everyone to take note of.

~*~

Edit was done before anyone else posted, and was for spelling errors. it's 1 AM central time as I post this. Joy. *yawns, grins*

[artemis-lady-warrior]

well i don't think i'll be posting in here anymore anyway. I'm no good at this kind of thing.

[7Knight-Wolf]

well i don't think i'll be posting in here anymore anyway. I'm no good at this kind of thing.

No! Don't leave us, Artemis!!!

[artemis-lady-warrior]

I would stay but I'm just causing problems, 7knight-wolf. I can't seem to word things right and I'm starting to sound retarded.
I have this thing. If I start leaving retarded posts I stop posting in said forum.

[SkyxDB]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna leave this topic too. Most of what I say here keeps coming out sounding stupid, and also for the fact this debate is just making my head spin. @~@

[7Knight-Wolf]

Uh, hello? I write stupid stuff all the time! I wouldn't let it get to me. Just because there are some really wordy people (Sinead, Razor One) doesn't mean they're more qualified than you...

Oh well. You'll be missed!

[Blazemane]

Woops! I just noticed something. We aren't allowed to edit posts, so I'll just say this. On page 8, I said

Your reasoning:

God exists timelessly- This only adds a level of confusion to our existence. Therefore, it is not believable. Besides, have you ever seen God? Can you test Him?

The universe exists timelessly- I don’t know your thoughts on this. You were saying it’s because matter can not be created or destroyed, but all that does is eradicate our previous options, #1, and #3.

The "you" in this statement is actually in reference to a fellow on the imdb.com forums, who I was having a theological debate with. I've used this line of reasoning many times, and thus a lot of this is copy and paste from me. But, I did read over it and try to personalize it specifically for Bwint, but it looks like I overlooked that.

[Rakshash]

I have been pondering on whether to enter the discussion or not. Before I start there’s a few things…

First of all the gratuitous use of the word ‘retarded’ needs to be stopped pronto. I don’t like excessive PC-ness but that word is being used over and over again. STOP! Thank you.

Evolution…

Evolution as an entity is irrefutable. Cats from lions, whales from wolf like animals, microorganisms as we speak evolve to form newer and more dangerous strains (and hence the danger of the bird flu virus).

Linking evolution to humans appears to be distasteful for some of you. IMO so be it, you can’t find a one-size-fits-all explanation.

I personally believe in evolution with respect to humankind. Perhaps not as we traditionally understand it. I believe in God but I don’t believe Him to be a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat. If He does things (I believe) He does them in a scientific purposeful way. When we can’t understand how He does something we call it a miracle. But computers, airplanes, vaccinations, refrigerators, televisions, cell phones etc were all miracles too once. However, that’s entirely my opinion, innit?


I like this thread...as long as we're listening to each other. I did not know about that numerical proof posted by Sinead.

To Whom it May Concern; An Educational Challenge

On that note, I'd like to pose a bit of a challenge. Every religion has stereotypes associated with it. One could read, but texts don't include the personal views that make the religion something tangible to its practitioners. We're an international community, thus we reasonably would have multiple religions represented here. This debate seems to be a chance for us to learn about each other above all else, so my challenge is this:
Each person who has a religion not previously mentioned, post little known facts and fictions about your faith.

Interesting. And very cool.

Myth: Allah angry. Allah smash non-Muslims.

Fact: Um. No?

Myth: But the Quran SAYS so! It SAYS that Muslims, like, should totally kill non-Muslims and stuff! [….Those who aren't killing (and don't get me wrong, I'm glad they don't) are merely ignoring the koran on that subject…..]

Fact: There is a much maligned verse which is sadly misinterpreted by terrorists out to blow up people and by people of other religions and cultures out of plain non-knowing.

Plucked out of the chapter all on its lonesome, this verse says the Muslims are commanded to make war with all the non-Muslims.

But reading it in continuation with the lines before it (like all tales and stories are supposed to be read) the non-Muslims in the verse refers to just ONE party of Arab non-Muslims. There was an alliance between them and the Muslims. Later that party of non-Muslims broke their promise and started a war. It was a verse for that particular group at that particular time at that particular place. It is not a generalized command.

In fact when Muslims and people of other religions share the same land, Muslims are supposed to protect them and help them.

For example the covenant with the Egyptian Christians goes like this:
http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/14/prop ... ian-copts/

If you have more questions…PM me!

Myth: Allah weighs your good and bad deeds on a scale when you die, and if your good outweighs the bad, even then he might just end up saying, “I don’t feel like letting you in,” and throw you into hell anyway.

Fact: No. In fact, the opposite!

Muslims believe their deeds will be counted “on a scale” for or against them. This is what is called justice. But there’s another component of Allah’s dealing with humanity called ‘mercy.’ The idea is if the bad deeds outweigh the good, Allah will have mercy and call it off. ‘The foundation of all deeds is on your intentions.’ If you have intended good, even if you mess up you’ll get into Heaven. That means any Muslim with a good heart, a compassionate nature, who does good deeds for others etc can and will wind up in Heaven.


Myth: Allah wants Muslims to die for Him.

Fact: Allah wants Muslims to live for Him. And when death comes then to die with dignity. In Islamic texts there are many acts given much more importance than going to war. For example if a soldier’s mother forbids him from going to war he is absolutely not allowed to go. Listening to your parents is supposed to be the top of the list of things to do if you’re a Muslim.


Myth: Muslims are snooty snobs who think only they’ll get into Heaven.

Fact: Muslims believe Heaven has many levels, allowing all degrees of good people in. For example many Muslims believe Mother Theresa and the last Pope will go to Heaven whereas Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein won’t. Ultimately your intentions and your acts speak for you.

I’ll sign off with an Islamic saying:

“Every man is either your brother in religion or your equal in creation.”

Do ask if you have questions. PM me, and I'll get to you eventually.

BEAST WARS wise...

I never thought of religious symbolism in BW before! Coolness! Now that I think about it...I wonder why it never hit me before

[artemis-lady-warrior]

whoa where did you come from all of a sudden?

Can I ask you one thing on the part of evolution?

Ok so God is perfect and knows what he's doing when he makes things and since some (not all) people believe he created everything, myself included, WHY would he make is a slow process? WHY would he make all the things around now (humans as the best example) take so long to reach that level when he could just make it all the way it is without taking "millions of years"
If he wanted to create humans wouldn't he make them HUMAN from the start?

As for Islam... well I never got involved with that discussion so I'm not going to say anything about it.