Transmetal Two's...how powerful are they?

[VelociBerg]

As you all know, Season 3 gave us many things--one of these things was the introduction of Transmetal 2 bots. First Dinobot, then Cheetor and Blackarachnia, and supposedly Megatron--though I'm not quite sure on the last one.

Anyway, was watching "Go With the Flow" (and a few others) just now and observed that TM2 Cheetor got blasted 4 (5 if you count a double blast from both guns simultaneously) times by Inferno. A double-blast in the back, followed by three more individual shots.

Now granted, Inferno has always had firepower. Yet apparently, this was enough to knock TM2 Cheetor out of commission, despite the fact that he fought an even fight against TM2 Dinobot (though both were in beast mode). In "Master Blaster", rather than attack Inferno, TM2 BA leads him outside so the base defenses can finish him.

Later she was getting crushed underfoot by Rampage, but he belongs in a category of his own, so that doesn't count.

On the other hand, TM2 DB successfully took down Depth Charge, the anti-Rampage, despite the fact that big preds are his specialty. BA had to shoot him with a triple-dose of cybervenom in the face plus knocking him off a cliff to take him out of the picture.

Naturally, each bot has different power. Were Cheetor and BA simply getting the short end of the stick when power was being distributed? Are they (Transmetal 2s) overrated? Or is Inferno just that powerful?

[off topic]All praise Inferno's power. Worrrrship it. Feeeeeel it. BURRRRRRN.[/off topic]

[Jagna]

i gave it a three...

sure theyr powerful but most of what you said is true.

i mean its th same for every character in this show. the first ep they r in they ick some serious ass! but then on end they can get knocked out cold by a tree or something silly like tht


thts all i have to say for now....i have to get to lit booster....

[Unvereitletmann]

I believe that they cannot be measured like "the next step", because they were the result of an experiment. Megatron could see the power, and benefits that a transmetal body gave. So in that way what Megatron sought was a way of having his troops reconstructed on this body type. The only problem was that the transmetal bodies were as well the result of the alien device explosion. So the process itself couldn´t be repeated and that's why megatron had to figure out a way to make his own transmetal version. I think theyre not over the transmetals but certainly they're not below in power. Also I don´t look at dragon Megatron as a transmetal 2. His change isn't the result of the exposure to the alien device.

Anyway were did he got the alien device for the transmetal 2 transformation?, I'm talking about that wierd sphere-like thing. Could be a plot line for a fanfic.

[VelociBerg]

i gave it a three...

sure theyr powerful but most of what you said is true.

i mean its th same for every character in this show. the first ep they r in they ick some serious ass! but then on end they can get knocked out cold by a tree or something silly like tht

Tell me about it, I just re-watched "Crossing the Rubicon".

...

Suffice to say, only the original Dinobot has thrashed Rampage faster (Code of Hero, with a little help from Waspinator) than what I saw TM2 BA do. At least with Depth Charge we got some awesome fight sequences, but...this was just plain murder. At least Dinobot's was slightly comical, what with the Waspinator-plug.

The next time BA beat Rampage, it was though some sneaky telekinesis.

*is obviously not happy about Rampage being thrashed around like this*

I believe that they cannot be measured like "the next step", because they were the result of an experiment. Megatron could see the power, and benefits that a transmetal body gave. So in that way what Megatron sought was a way of having his troops reconstructed on this body type. The only problem was that the transmetal bodies were as well the result of the alien device explosion. So the process itself couldn´t be repeated and that's why megatron had to figure out a way to make his own transmetal version.

I pretty much agree with this. Some minute, very minute things I don't but not anything worth mentioning. Main reason I started this thread was just to see everyone else's opinions--after all, you can never have too much BW discussion.

I think theyre not over the transmetals but certainly they're not below in power. Also I don´t look at dragon Megatron as a transmetal 2. His change isn't the result of the exposure to the alien device.

Well, I think this transfers over to individual power rather than the upgrade power once we get nitty-gritty. For instance, Inferno took TM2 Cheetor out of the fight quickly enough, yet Depth Charge got his tail handed to him by TM2 Dinobot--Liu Kang style. Dinobot also knocked OOP to the ground with one shot, and has proved he's a capable fighter more than once (and not just in his first episode either).

As for Megatron, I consider him to be the peak of Transmetal technology, rather than Transmetal 2. Despite what Hasbro says. Bleh. Marketing.

Anyway were did he got the alien device for the transmetal 2 transformation?, I'm talking about that wierd sphere-like thing. Could be a plot line for a fanfic.

My only guess would be that he took it as a souvenir from the alien weapon he took over in "Other Visits"

[Lyxwal]

Well, here is a thought.

What if T2 is above Transmetal, but in certain aspects. Cheetor got a huge boost in speed, and he was already pretty fast, and he also (I think, don't quote me on this one) got some more fire power. Other then that, his power didn't go up that much.

If you count TM2 Dinobot as an upgrade of the original (Lets, just to keep things simple and it was a clone) He also got a HUGE boost in agility, more fire power, and probably strength. His durability (And probably everything else except the agility) was probably a result of Rampage's spark.

BA is a bit different. She got fairly large boost in everything, but she was still in a basic form, so that is probably why. Unlike Cheetor or Dinobot thought, she had absolutley no exposure to Ramage, so she didn't get anything from him. No firepower, I don't think anyway, but to quote daft punk, "Harder, better, faster, stronger". She did also get freaky mind powers!

So my two theories being TM2 is the next step over transmetal all by its self, but tainting it can give higher and more focused abilities (Exposure to Rampage) which is why Cheetor and Dinobot got a huge boost in certain aspects, but not in everything, and BA got a huge boost in virtually everything.

Theory two is much simpler. TM2 focuses power, without siphoning it away from anything else, and BA got a boost in everything because she skipped Transmetal and went right for TM2.

Sorry for posting so long, and for my terrible speeling.

Oh, and I agree that Megatron would be the peak of Transmetal technology without stepping up to 2. He was more powerful because he had two sparks, straight forward.

[VelociBerg]

Well, here is a thought.

What if T2 is above Transmetal, but in certain aspects. Cheetor got a huge boost in speed, and he was already pretty fast, and he also (I think, don't quote me on this one) got some more fire power. Other then that, his power didn't go up that much.

Wait. Cheetor had firepower?...At all? What?

ERROR.ERROR.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

If you count TM2 Dinobot as an upgrade of the original (Lets, just to keep things simple and it was a clone) He also got a HUGE boost in agility, more fire power, and probably strength. His durability (And probably everything else except the agility) was probably a result of Rampage's spark.

Or maybe TM2 Dinobot is naturally that strong?

I mean, look what it took to kill the obselete original:

1) Point-blank shot from TM Tarantulas
2) Several shots from basic Blackarachnia, also at a decent range
3) Severe backlash from Rampage's tank mode
4) Quickstrike's cybervenom
--Also the point where his systems went critical
5) Some punches and taunts thrown in by Megatron for good measure

Seeing how this is an upgrade, it only makes sense that those factors would increase.

BA is a bit different. She got fairly large boost in everything, but she was still in a basic form, so that is probably why.

Its also possible that the protoform used for TM2 Dinobot was also an original form, though there's no way of proving that one way or the other. The only thing I could think of to prove this would be that Megatron used Dinobot's DNA for the cloning process, and Dinobot was a standard-issue bot.

Unlike Cheetor... she had absolutley no exposure to Ramage, so she didn't get anything from him.

Wait...what? What does Cheetor have to do with Rampage?

So my two theories being TM2 is the next step over transmetal all by its self, but tainting it can give higher and more focused abilities (Exposure to Rampage) which is why Cheetor and Dinobot got a huge boost in certain aspects, but not in everything, and BA got a huge boost in virtually everything.

Then why did BA scurry around to get the base defenses to blast Inferno? Would've been quicker just to take him out.

Theory two is much simpler. TM2 focuses power, without siphoning it away from anything else, and BA got a boost in everything because she skipped Transmetal and went right for TM2.

But wouldn't a transmetal undergoing such a transformation focus even more power then? Seeing as how, ya know, transmetals are stronger than standard transformers on average?

Sorry for posting so long, and for my terrible speeling.

Eh, wasn't too long.

Oh, and I agree that Megatron would be the peak of Transmetal technology without stepping up to 2. He was more powerful because he had two sparks, straight forward.

Okay, could someone explain what the heck two sparks have to do with power? (Note: Lyxwal, this isn't aimed at you directly so don't get offended, this is just an issue I have.) I mean, really. The only other double-sparked bots were Tigerhawk and Optimal Optimus, for a short time.

Tigerhawk is as powerful as he is simply because of the Vok enhancing him. Optimus on the other hand has shown no displays of power beyond his Optimal-sized body limits (unless quoting Prime counts). Everything he did in "Optimal Situation" could easily be duplicated by himself later on, from punching Rampage to busting through mountain walls.

When Megatron speaks of "Did you really think you could face the might of BOTH Megatrons?" I think he means it rhetorically and egotisically.

Megatron himself said that it was Tarantulas's treachery that made him as powerful as he was. The "Optimal Megatron" body was mutated during the transition from transmetal due to the lava he was thrown into.

Also, when he says:

"Fool! Optimus got his power from Prime's spark..." I take it this power he refers to is the Optimal form. Did Optimus change back once Prime's spark was returned? No, so any power he had stayed with him.

But the Matrix! you say. What about it? Primal never used it, just tucked it away in a little cockpit. The only effect two sparks has, I think, is mentally. Both Optimus and Megatron became more like their namesake. Optimus started going overboard with speeches,quotes, and heroics while Megatron became more aggressive and defiant.

*rant over* I hope.

[Lyxwal]

Well, Cheetor had the gun on his back and one-shot waspinator (although not much of an accomplishment)

Well, here is my thinking behind Cheetor. Dinobot 2 was made with the core of Rampages Spark, and Cheetor got a huge blast of energy. My guess is Cheetor going darker (Ever so slightly) his seldom seem quick-healing (Although that was only just when going TM2) and even being Feral when transforming initially was all a result of the use of Rampage's twisted Spark. Just a theory though.

Let me also revise the Dinbot theory while I am at it. Lets count Dinobot 2 as an upgrade of Dinobot. He would have
Transmetal, and even TM2 power stacked on top of Dinobot's base power, and the result of Rampage's spark inside him also made him really nasty, not to mention give him immense durability.

As for BA, simple. She scurried about, because this way is a lot more likley to take out Inferno without damging her in anyway at all. She could wipe the floor with Inferno, but might get damaged in the process.

As for Two Spark, I dunno. My guess is it goes something like this
Two Sparks- Full power
Loss of second spark- Same capabilities, but not as powerful. Not as strong, durable, not as powerful weapons, etc. But maybe I am wrong on that one.

Oh, and third theory which is more refined.
Going TM2 from Transmetal sky rockets a certain aspect, in the case of Cheetor being speed.
Going TM2 from basic boosts everything to at least Transmetal level. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Ok, maybe not THAT refined.

[VelociBerg]

Well, Cheetor had the gun on his back and one-shot waspinator (although not much of an accomplishment)

I swear, until he hit TM2 he was one of the few, if not only bot who actually struggled with Waspinator.

Well, here is my thinking behind Cheetor. Dinobot 2 was made with the core of Rampages Spark,

Technically it was actually half of his Spark, not just the Core. But I get the point. Check.

and Cheetor got a huge blast of energy.

Check.

My guess is Cheetor going darker (Ever so slightly) his seldom seem quick-healing (Although that was only just when going TM2) and even being Feral when transforming initially was all a result of the use of Rampage's twisted Spark. Just a theory though.

He was also the only living transformer to undergo the TM2 transformation. Both DB2 and BA were both, well, dead when it happened to them. Thus, he alone suffers the side-effects. And his darkness could also be interpreted as him "growing up".

Let me also revise the Dinbot theory while I am at it. Lets count Dinobot 2 as an upgrade of Dinobot. He would have
Transmetal, and even TM2 power stacked on top of Dinobot's base power, and the result of Rampage's spark inside him also made him really nasty, not to mention give him immense durability.

Actually, that was TM2 metal on the durability. The durability itself is also off and on. Rampage's spark gave him healing and near-immortality. Check out his wrecked arm in "Proving Grounds" before he healed it.

As for BA, simple. She scurried about, because this way is a lot more likley to take out Inferno without damging her in anyway at all. She could wipe the floor with Inferno, but might get damaged in the process.

She took on Inferno when she was in standard form without a scratch. Following this, she took on Rampage in TM2 form without a scratch. Even now, Depth Charge is clamoring for lessons.

As for Two Spark, I dunno. My guess is it goes something like this
Two Sparks- Full power
Loss of second spark- Same capabilities, but not as powerful. Not as strong, durable, not as powerful weapons, etc. But maybe I am wrong on that one.

Yeah, the whole thing is pretty confusing. How would a gun suddenly become less effective? It fires the same bullets, yes? Let's just move past the double sparks thing.

Oh, and third theory which is more refined.
Going TM2 from Transmetal sky rockets a certain aspect, in the case of Cheetor being speed.
Going TM2 from basic boosts everything to at least Transmetal level. Jack of all trades, master of none.

Ok, maybe not THAT refined.

Wasn't that your first theory?

[Lyxwal]

Ooo, that was a good point on cheetor being the only one to go through it live, that could explain it. However, I am a huge fan of Rampage, so I like to put him in whenever it seems to even remotley fit, but an excelent point.

Still, for BA, it isn't that she couldn't do it without a scratch, it is just that she was up against the preds all by herself. Any damage she could avoid, she would, I think.

Dinobot: Sorry, kept mixing up my words. When I say durability, I mean sturdiness and regenerative abilities, and survivability, all rolled into one.

As for my theory, it is largley the same, the only difference being that I didn't conculde that going from TM to TM2 made a difference.

Alternate theory could be this: Energy. TM2 have more energy and are even more effeciant, so they can go a lot longer, run smoother, etc. The only problem is cheetor, who got a whole lot faster. I blame that on going from Transmetal to Transmetal 2. BA and Dinobot were much stronger then basic form in TM2, but that was Transmetal level ability. Their main advantage being energy effeciancy.

Heck, I dunno! Maybe basic is a merging of Beast and Bot, Transmetal tosses in Alien power, and TM2 pure-aids it!

[Unvereitletmann]

I really think that the transmetal 2 body had only one benefit for every maximal/predacon that accomplished this step. This is a theory:
When in classic form (season 1) their robot bodies were enhanced by the beast form. During beast form they were animals and during android forms they were only robotic (although some parts of their beast form showed but mostly a metallic body). But when going on to transmetal technology they lost all the escence of having like "animal" stuff in them.
Both during beast and android form they were plain and simple metal sheets. No scales No fur, plus the vehicle mode, which was an awesome advantage, but it did took out that animal essence. So getting to transmetal two brought back that old characteristics of the beast form. Plus it gave them the capabilities of a machine, and now the result is that oppossed to transmetal technology, now we have combined superstructures, of both animal and machine in beast and bot form. So in that way I think that's the explanation , combined the idea of different individual capability, and my previous thread, that transmetal 2 are suppossed to be the next step when they aren´t. Though some bodies like Dinobot's looked awesome as well I still think they're the offspring of a mad experiment that went all the way wrong.

For the two spark-thing going on, here's what I've come to. Imagine you have a computer (I´m not using any living thing, cause I think machines resemble most to the technological development of transformers). Now imagine you use it all day long the seven days a week. (which would resemble to what "be at war" means). Plus load inside it tons of music videos and stuff like games etc. (Which I think could resemble to the personality of a transformer...but you can argue at this). Imagine the overload that the processor would have, even if they are designed to resist (which they are) having two cores is better than one, as it has been a proof in processor technology, so if we compare the proccessor to the concious being a transformer represents, maybe having two cores - two sparks might make them faster, stronger, and everything you can think, the body change is an extra-advantage, but imagine how much the sparks could learn from each other, even if they have to separate. The learning process they had from each other (if we're counting they can comunicate in any sort) would stay in the host body. But then again is an example. Quite weird though.

[VelociBerg]

Ooo, that was a good point on cheetor being the only one to go through it live, that could explain it. However, I am a huge fan of Rampage, so I like to put him in whenever it seems to even remotley fit, but an excelent point.

Thanks, you've had some good ones yourself.

Still, for BA, it isn't that she couldn't do it without a scratch, it is just that she was up against the preds all by herself. Any damage she could avoid, she would, I think.

Nice on the damage. But the problem there is that most of the preds weren't even around. Rampage she had already taken care of. (Grrr.) Megatron was suffering in a lava pit, Dinobot was out chasing Depth Charge, and Waspinator was flattened. Only Quickstrike (controlling OOP) and Tarantulas were left after Inferno. And we all saw how she dealt with Quickstrike.

Dinobot: Sorry, kept mixing up my words. When I say durability, I mean sturdiness and regenerative abilities, and survivability, all rolled into one.

Yes, but he's no Rampage in terms of durability. Despite what I said in the "Who's the most Powerful" thread. (Which I still say TM2 DB would win, by the way.)

As for my theory, it is largley the same, the only difference being that I didn't conculde that going from TM to TM2 made a difference.

But you did say that.

What if T2 is above Transmetal, but in certain aspects. Cheetor got a huge boost in speed, and he was already pretty fast,

Eh, I digress.

Alternate theory could be this: Energy. TM2 have more energy and are even more effeciant, so they can go a lot longer, run smoother, etc. The only problem is cheetor, who got a whole lot faster. I blame that on going from Transmetal to Transmetal 2. BA and Dinobot were much stronger then basic form in TM2, but that was Transmetal level ability. Their main advantage being energy effeciancy.

I'd see this more as an added bonus for TM2s, not just their only advantage.

Heck, I dunno! Maybe basic is a merging of Beast and Bot,

Aargh! Memories...Beast Machines...AHHHH!

Also, just an added thought for everyone:

Remember the Cyber-raptors? They were pretty much unstoppable until they found out about the weak spot. How's that fit in for TM2s?

[VelociBerg]

I really think that the transmetal 2 body had only one benefit for every maximal/predacon that accomplished this step. This is a theory:
When in classic form (season 1) their robot bodies were enhanced by the beast form. During beast form they were animals and during android forms they were only robotic (although some parts of their beast form showed but mostly a metallic body). But when going on to transmetal technology they lost all the escence of having like "animal" stuff in them.
Both during beast and android form they were plain and simple metal sheets. No scales No fur, plus the vehicle mode, which was an awesome advantage, but it did took out that animal essence.

Actually it was flipped (for some). The animal side was now out and about in robot mode. Examples:

Cheetor's spots
If you flip Rattrap inside out his beast mode would be silver/gray.
As well as Optimus.
The same goes for Rampage (I think.)

Interestingly, it seems the Predacons (minus Rampage) are the actual "metal sheets".

Megatron does have more purple/black in robot mode, but Tarantulas is just...off.

For the two spark-thing going on, here's what I've come to. Imagine you have a computer (I´m not using any living thing, cause I think machines resemble most to the technological development of transformers). Now imagine you use it all day long the seven days a week. (which would resemble to what "be at war" means). Plus load inside it tons of music videos and stuff like games etc. (Which I think could resemble to the personality of a transformer...but you can argue at this). Imagine the overload that the processor would have, even if they are designed to resist (which they are) having two cores is better than one, as it has been a proof in processor technology, so if we compare the proccessor to the concious being a transformer represents, maybe having two cores - two sparks might make them faster, stronger, and everything you can think, the body change is an extra-advantage, but imagine how much the sparks could learn from each other, even if they have to separate. The learning process they had from each other (if we're counting they can comunicate in any sort) would stay in the host body. But then again is an example. Quite weird though.

This...makes some sense. But then, OOP appears to not be tapping into Prime's spark that much. I mean, its just sitting there...literally. Small joke.

but imagine how much the sparks could learn from each other, even if they have to separate. The learning process they had from each other (if we're counting they can comunicate in any sort) would stay in the host body.

Tell that to Optimus fans who say Megatron won the last two fights because he had two sparks and OOP had one. If this process stays in there, then it means his power didn't increase or diminish at all (aside from the form upgrade). I take it like this, he had his Pentium chip replaced with a Pentium III.

[Lyxwal]

Maybe the reason megs won was also because his transformation was much smoother. Merging with Megatron would have given similar results I think, him becoming larger and more metal then flesh, but being dropped into the lava softened him up, and made it much easier, smooth, even, and better.

Kind of like, Primal was a piece of clay that harded, and then piled more on top of that, but Megs was still soft, and remolded after adding more.

Best analogy I can come up with.

Hey, what if TM2's are superior in that beast and bot are merged even more in both forms, where as Transmetal blurred the lines, but also swapped them a bit.

Kind of like, TM being a cyborg, and TM2 being 100% bio-mechanical. Don't ask me what advantages this would give.

[VelociBerg]

Maybe the reason megs won was also because his transformation was much smoother. Merging with Megatron would have given similar results I think, him becoming larger and more metal then flesh, but being dropped into the lava softened him up, and made it much easier, smooth, even, and better.

Waspinator has one of the smoothest transformations I've seen--doesn't seem to help him much. If anything I'd say the lava hardened him, made him more resistant to damage. I mean, if he was softer the lava would've melted him like Scorponok or Terrorsaur.

The real reasons I think?

Megatron had to fight to have this body. Immediately upon being removed from its resting place, G1 Megatron's spark was trying to take control, as well as the lava improving his strength and changing his beast mode.

Hey, what if TM2's are superior in that beast and bot are merged even more in both forms, where as Transmetal blurred the lines, but also swapped them a bit.

Kind of like, TM being a cyborg, and TM2 being 100% bio-mechanical. Don't ask me what advantages this would give.

Eh, I'd say TMs are more like pure robots that happen to have an alternate beast mode/vehicle mode. The problem here is that from what I can tell, TM2 Dinobot appears to not have an ounce of flesh on him--in robot or beast mode.

[Lyxwal]

????????????

When I said transformation, perhaps I should have said metamorphosis. Transitioning from Transmetal to Dragon form. Lava softened him up, and then he hardened. Like, live smelting!

And now that I think about it, my theory on TM2 is flawed, alas.