The Origin of Species

[GoktimusPrime]

This discussion spawned from the Beast Wars Trivia Thread, but I've made this thread for further discussion of the matter without further derailing the BW Triv thread.

The question is whether the Beast Wars toyline was first released in 1995 or 1996

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Yeah, unfortunately all I have to go on is memories. I remember getting the toys around christmas to mid fall of 1995, then around march or june I first saw beast wars and recorded it on pay per view(Which I wouldn't of bothered with if I didn't have the toys) then later on was surprised to see it on tv eventually.

I wouldn't be surprised about Australia getting the stuff last(Since like europe they get videogames and such so far after the fact it's depressing.), but I do remember seeing the Machine wars toys in the store at the same time as the Beast wars..

I've been continuously collecting Transformers since 1984, and I seriously don't remember seeing any Beast Wars Transformers in 1995 - only late G2. 1996 was a VERY dry year for Transformers, and most stores didn't have any new stock -- only a small handful of stores had some of the Beast Wars toys in Australia that year, but most stores didn't get them until 1997. Note: I was living in Japan at the time, so in terms of Australian distribution I'm going off information from other Australian collectors - one good source of information is the Australian Transformers Toy List - which comprehensively lists every Transformer that was released in Australia and when.

Machine Wars definitely came out in 1997 as a Kay Bee and KB Toys exclusive line in the U.S. I distinctly remember this because as an 'exotic' US exclusive toy line, I asked Ben Yee (his site also confirms MW as being a 1997 line) to help me get the entire series and ship them over to me in Japan. Then when I moved back to Australia, I had to ship over all the Beast Wars Transformers I'd collected by then, as well as my entire Machine Wars collection. For most of 1998 I enjoyed being the only known collector in Australia with a Machine Wars collection (which wasn't _that_ interesting since most Aussie collectors already had the original Turbomaster and Predator moulds that the Machine Wars toys were repainted and retooled from (and honestly, the original Turbomasters and Predators were better anyway -- especially Thunderclash... MW Optimus Prime totally sucks without the rapid-fire missile launcher gimmick anymore)... but then later that year Machine Wars toys hit Aussie shelves EVERYWHERE. And they shelf warmed for years!! So of course, all the money and effort I'd spent importing my Machine Wars collection from the U.S. to Japan to Australia was ultimately futile. Aah, I can laugh about it now at least. :p :p

I dunno, up till now I've never heard of Beast Wars being released in 1995. I think what we need to do is try to cross-reference multiple independent sources; the majority of which I've found indicate that Beast Wars was released in 1996. I'd never seen a source that stated otherwise until you guys showed me that wikipedia link - but as I'm sure we all know, wikipedia's authenticity can at times be dubious.
Anyway, here are some sources:
a: TFwiki: says 1996
b: Transformers.wikia: also states 1996
c: TFU.info's 1996 listing shows all the first year Beast Wars figures, and their 1995 listing shows all the final year G2 toys.
d: BWTF.com's Armordillo review, a 1st year Beast Wars toy, lists it as 1996
e: Hasbro's 1995 Toy Fair Catalogue shows images of 1995 G2 toys (that try hard drawing of Laser Optimus Prime is so terrible it's funny!)
f: Hasbro's 1996 Toy Fair Catalogue shows images of the early Beast Wars toys - including the prototype Tigatron (whose name was spelt "Tigertron") in the colours of a Bengal Tiger instead of a White Tiger!
g: (Brady, Matthew, Altered Beasts: From Autobots to Maximals, Hasbro's Transformers Are Still More Than Meets The Eye (ToyFare: The Toy Magazine #11), July 11 1998, Wizard Entertainment Group, NY.) - this article, which also features an interview with Hasbro's George Boznos, states, "...Hasbro unveiled Beast Wars figures in 1996..." - Boznos was Hasbro/Kenner's Beast Wars Design Manager and was one of HasKen's reps at BotCon 1996 (alongside Anthony Gaud).

Also: Hasbro released their "Beast Wars 10th Anniversary" toyline in 2006. If Hasbro/Kenner had intended to release Beast Wars in 1995, then why did they commemorate Beast Wars' 10th Anniversary in 2006 instead of 2005?
References:
tfwiki (BW 10th anniv.)
transformers.wikia (BW 10th Anniv.)
TFU.info (2006 listing)

Sorry fellas, but I remain skeptical about claims that Beast Wars was released in 1995 until I can see more substantial evidence (i.e. multiple independent sources) that state otherwise. I will continue investigating into this matter further.

Edit: I just messaged Ben Yee and Dave Van Dom asking them to help clarify this issue.

[GoktimusPrime]

From Ben Yee:

It is possible that early production samples got onto the market in late (late, late) 1995. This has been known to happen from time to time. However, I don't consider those a real "release" as the street dates were probably meant to be 1996. And considering (as you rightly pointed out) Hasbro is using 2006 as the 10th Anniversary I'd say 1996 is the "official date".

So, in theory IF (and it's a pretty big if) some retailers violated Hasbro's embargo date on Beast Wars and sold some toys at the very end of 1995, then it may be possible that some people would have purchased BW toys prior to 1996. So I guess it's theoretically possible, but I still remain skeptical until I see further substantial proof. :/

[Alak]

Still confident that the first Beast Wars transformers toys hit the market in 1995 (however late in the year). I also e-mailed Hasbro just now in case they have it stored somewhere in their archives or whatever record book they have.

Since no one is really sure, I thought I'd ask Hasbro. What year did your company first release the Beast Wars toyline? Some sources say Spring 1996 and others say Autumn 1995. If you could answer this, I would truly appreciate it.

I'm not really familiar with how the company operates nowadays, so we'll see if they can look back that far. As for the current sources, I only have these:

My Rattrap and Bat Primal and Croc Megatron are stamped 1995.

McDonalds BW toys

Also, Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transforme ... oy_line%29

With the failure of the Generation 2 series, Hasbro and Takara decided the franchise needed an overhaul. They went in a new direction and a new beginning. While there had been Transformers that change into robotic animals, the premise of the new line was that all figures would transform into animals with realistic appearances. The Beast Wars toyline was launched in the autumn of 1995, and Mainframe Entertainment produced a computer-generated imagery, or CGI, animated series program to tie in with the new toyline. A fresh idea coupled with a TV series program with strong stories assured this series the success Hasbro and Takara needed, as this series was a giant hit in international markets as well as in Takara's home market, Japan.

It's quite possible that NaitoKage got the first batch of Optimus Primals (bat form) in '95 and the one GoktimusPrime got was from a later wave in '96. Either that or Australia didn't see any BW toys until '96. Also keep in mind that the source is Wikipedia...

The figures referred to in the question were indeed a 1995 release; my box and little comic that came in it has that date on it, and was confirmed by the research I did on them when I got the box home from Botcon last year.

Really, the only absolute reliable sources are the ones that people can see with their own eyes. The McDonalds line and NK and Nurann's toys are marked as 1995. Wikipedia and any other Wiki are subject to misinformed edits or lack of proper updates. As Ben Yee said himself, it is highly possible for early releases before the intended date (even if it is illegal).

[GoktimusPrime]

Still confident that the first Beast Wars transformers toys hit the market in 1995 (however late in the year). I also e-mailed Hasbro just now in case they have it stored somewhere in their archives or whatever record book they have.

I suspect Hasbro's record would indicate a 1996 embargo (street release date). If the toys were released in December 1995, it would have been done by rogue traders who violated the embargo date; and I don't think these retailers would have informed Hasbro about doing so, thus I would be surprised if Hasbro had a record of this. Unless Hasbro store reps noticed the embargo violation upon some random inspection at the time and made a record of it... that could be possible I guess.

It's quite possible that NaitoKage got the first batch of Optimus Primals (bat form) in '95 and the one GoktimusPrime got was from a later wave in '96. Either that or Australia didn't see any BW toys until '96. Also keep in mind that the source is Wikipedia...

The figures referred to in the question were indeed a 1995 release; my box and little comic that came in it has that date on it, and was confirmed by the research I did on them when I got the box home from Botcon last year.

I believe the year on the copyright stampage represents the year that the toy's patent was registered, and not necessarily the year in which the toy itself was released. In order for the toys to have been sold in North American markets in January of 1996, then toys would have been manufactured and distributed in 1995 with a trade embargo date for January 1996 stamped on the cases.

Really, the only absolute reliable sources are the ones that people can see with their own eyes. The McDonalds line and NK and Nurann's toys are marked as 1995. Wikipedia and any other Wiki are subject to misinformed edits or lack of proper updates. As Ben Yee said himself, it is highly possible for early releases before the intended date (even if it is illegal).

Most (if not all) recorded online sightings of Transformers in 1995 would have been on alt.toys.transformers. Dave Van Dom got back to me and pointed out that unfortunately Google Groups has a massive gap for 1995 in alt.toys.transformers, which doesn't help us drudge up old sightings posts. The earliests Beast Wars acquisitions I can track were M.Sipher and Dave Van Dom. M.Sipher acquired his first BW Transformer in January 8, 1996, and Dave Van Domelen started doing Beast Wars TF toy reviews on January 19, 1996. He tells me that he got his Transformers in January 1996. So the earliest records I can find of people acquiring Beast Wars Transformers extends to Jan 1996. Dave concurs that it's plausible that some stores failed to enforce the 1996 street date and started selling the toys in December 1995.

So I think we can conclude that Beast Wars officially started in 1996, but it's possible that some people may have been able to prematurely acquire them in December 1995 due to some stores illegally violating Hasbro/Kenner's embargo date.

[JazZeke]

According to my DVD sets, the pilot was first aired in April 1996. And Goktimus is correct, the year stamped on a figure is actually it's patent date, which are almost always a year before the date of a toy's actual release as Transformers usually take longer to engineer than a regular action figure.

Just look at any new figure and you'll see the patent date is 2009 (or now that we've hit a new year we'll start seeing "2010" stamped on them soon if we haven't already).

[NaitoKage]

Ah, kinda like with some videogames that have come out lately. Huh..So I got the toys earlier then they were supposed to be. Neat.

[Alak]

Huh, I never did check my video games and such but I just pulled out an old action figure right now and it seems legit. Still never heard back from Hasbro customer service but it's probably because it's Sunday or they just don't know. I kinda wish I can remember that far back when I first saw these toys hit the shelf, but I never paid attention to the BW collection until the TV series aired.

***EDIT***

Well, just checked three of the games I brought with me home for break and all have the same years as their release (Halo: Reach, Black Ops, and Super Street Fighter 4). I guess I'll just wait for Hasbro's reply and take their word for granted.

[Alak]

Just got this in my inbox:

Hi Jason,

Thank you for contacting Hasbro regarding the Transformers Beast Wars.

The Beast Wars were first released in 1996.

Regards,

Kelly