Question about Snowstalker

[Darkshadow14]

Now does everyone remember Snowstalker? She was Stripes's female tiger friend. I was wondering if it seemed like that was his lover before the bird-lady, or just a good friend/tiger? Wha tdo you guys think?

[Night-Hunter]

Hmm, i'm not sure. But I think that Snowstalker may have been Tigertron lover. But again i'm not sure.

[Aesir]

Pretty sure she was just a friend

[SkyxDB]

Yeah, I always saw them as just friends. But either way I think he really loved her.

[Darkshadow14]

Thats what I thought too, just friends. A real good friend, perhaps "best friends."

[JazZeke]

I think the show was ambiguous about their relationship and appropriately so. Tigers don't tend to stick together like that anyway. Still, I like the idea of a Maximal taking an organic mate. I always figured Maximals gave themselves "anatomically correct" beast modes since according to the authors of the show, organic alt. modes were originally designed for espionage and exploration amongst organic species. The ability to take a mate would definitely help for more complex societies, and adding a whole new dimension to things. And no, I don't think it's necessarily squicky.

[GoktimusPrime]

Snowstalker was Tigatron's companion. She would have been a friend as much as your pet is your friend. As much as Tigatron greatly loves and respects the wild, the fact is that Tigatron is a fully rational and sentient agent, whereas Snowstalker - as a wild animal - is not. Even domesticated and trained animals aren't complete rational agents (even human children are considered quasi-rational agents at best, that's why they're not allowed to vote, consume alcohol, drive, consent to sex etc. until they're closer to "adulthood" (i.e. cognitive maturity). Tigatron has a special relationship with Snowstalker in terms of being an animal lover, but beyond that has also learned to commune with animals like her. This is comparable with the relationship between certain people and animals, like say Dian Fossey and her gorillas. I recently watched a documentary where a man communes with a pack of wolves; he managed to get the wolves to accept him as a member of their pack.

There's not a sliver of canonical evidence that would even remotely suggest any kind of romantic or sexual relation between Tigatron and Snowstalker.

I always figured Maximals gave themselves "anatomically correct" beast modes since according to the authors of the show, organic alt. modes were originally designed for espionage and exploration amongst organic species. The ability to take a mate would definitely help for more complex societies, and adding a whole new dimension to things. And no, I don't think it's necessarily squicky.

The Maximals probably are anatomically correct. After all, even the Heinlad toy has testicles (his Maximal Spark crystal is actually imbedded his right scrotum). But just because they're equipped doesn't necessarily mean they have a sex drive. Although Beast Wars showed that if they stay in their Beast Modes too long then they can turn feral, but Tigatron long taught himself to control his feral aspects -- and indeed he taught the other Maximals to do likewise. So putting that into consideration, I would doubt that Tigatron would form a bond with Snowstalker simply to satiate some kind of feral sexual urge (cos if that were the case, what about his other feral urges? We know that Tigatron doesn't hunt prey like a real tiger would naturally want to do... I used to own a house cat and I can't tell you the number of times I'd come home to find dead birds in my back yard :/ And it's not because we didn't feed her... it was just her natural instinct to hunt... she usually never even ate them (which made my clean up job harder)).

Romance between Cybertronians doesn't appear to be sexually driven per se. It's more of an emotional bond. Transformer genders has always been a highly contentious issues. Transformers have emotional/psychological genders, but no physical genders really (since Transformers Reproduction is 'asexual'). And the gender of one mode doesn't necessarily equate to the gender of the alt mode. e.g. Rachel/Lion is a female humanoid who transforms into a male lion (not a lioness). Also remember that Airazar (Airazor in Japan) is _male_... so Tigatron and Airazar are arguably "gay" (although some people have argued that the romance between Tigatron and Airazar was played down and treated more like a "brotherly" love... ya know... like Frodo and Sam :p Brokeback Mountain of Mordor! ).

Now some proponents of Cybertronian sexual reproduction might try to cite the fact that Wheelie had parents and that the end of the Victory manga showed that the Decepticons had wives and children (*shudder*). However, I would point out the following flaws with this suggestion:
1: It's just scrapped up! :p
2: There are other definitions of "parent" and "child" beyond just progeny. Wheelie's so-called parents may have been a Cybertronian (or possibly non-Cybertronian) couple who took care of him before crashing on Quintessa. After all, Star Sabre - an Autobot - is the adoptive father of Jan/Jean, a human child (whose real parents were killed in a Decepticon attack). It's more likely, when you think about it, that the infant Decepticons we see at the end of Victory are probably juvenile Cybertronians under the care and custody of the Decepticons... much like say the Decepticon hatchlings that we see in Revenge of the Fallen, only with emotional bonds attached (whereas the Decepticons in the live movie continuity show no attachment to their young). There is NO canonical evidence that I can think of where it explicitly shows a Cybertronian life form being created through sexual reproduction. We see RARE instances of parents with children, but it's never explicitly stated that those juveniles are necessarily the direct progeny of two parent Cybertronians.

Tigatron and Snowstalker were, as far as all canonical evidence tells us, just companions. "Friends" if you will, but there's no evidence of anything beyond that.

[SkyxDB]

I think you do make some good point Gorktimus. Yeah, I do imagine that Tigatron loved Snowstalker, but in the way someone would a really a close friend, sort of like Frodo and Sam's Bromance.

Though Airazor is a female in the English version of Beast Wars. I do remember reading somewhere that Airazor was changed to male when Beast Wars came to Japan, but at the time they made the desicion they didn't know that there was going to be a little bit of romance between Tigatron and Airazor, so when they got to that part they tried to play it of as more brotherly.

Also I agree with you with TF relationship being more emotionally based. At least that's how I prefer to protray it most of my fanworks.

[GoktimusPrime]

Though Airazor is a female in the English version of Beast Wars. I do remember reading somewhere that Airazor was changed to male when Beast Wars came to Japan, but at the time they made the desicion they didn't know that there was going to be a little bit of romance between Tigatron and Airazor, so when they got to that part they tried to play it of as more brotherly.

Takara should have known that there would have been romance, as the cartoon was already out in North America by time they started releasing Beast Wars in Japan. That's why Japanese Beast Wars toys have more show-like box/tech specs art as well as more show-like colours on figures like Tigatron and Black Widow (Blackarachnia). TV Tokyo did try to pass the romance off as being 'bromance' (I like that word ) ... much like Frodo and Sam. And just like the bromance between Frodo and Sam, it does arguably come across with intimate-romantic undertones. But it depends on one's perspective... see, some people see Frodo and Sam as being totally gay for each other (as pointed out in Clerks II (caution: video link contains coarse language and sexual references)), but I just see them as close friends and comrades-in-arms. Some people see the relationship between Tigatron and Airazar (Airazor's Japanese name) as being a close brotherly bond, but they still come off as being in love with each other to me. It gets even more confusing in Japanese continuity considering that Metals Airazar (Japanese Transmetal Airazor) is female! (@_@)

[SkyxDB]

Wow, really? Though I don't really know anything about the comics, since I've never read them. Though that's mostly because I've never seen any Transformers comics in the area where I live.

But yeah I see Frodo and Sam as just really close friends as well. Also the only thing I can think that could debunk them being gay for eachother was the fact that in both the books and the movie, Sam was in love with that girl and Fordo was encouraging Sam to try talk her, and we all know in the end Sam ends up being happily married to Rosie.

But yeah, I said Tigatron and Airazor definately made a love connection from they way they were interacting with each other right before they were taken by Vok and when the Vok took them. Also I'll admit my sucker for romance side was very unhappy with the Vok for interupting thier romantic moment. Dang you Vok! But anyway, even if Airazor was male, I'd probably end up shipping them anyway. XD

[GoktimusPrime]

Wow, really? Though I don't really know anything about the comics, since I've never read them. Though that's mostly because I've never seen any Transformers comics in the area where I live.

That's cos you live in Prehistoric Earth. Writing and paper aren't invented yet! :p

It was in the Japanese Beast Wars Metals manga, which you would only get either from Japan or if you have a Japanese book store in your area (e.g. Kinokuniya). In the Japanese manga continuity, the quantum surge not only changed Airazar to a Metals (Transmetal), but also changed him to a female too. See here!

But yeah I see Frodo and Sam as just really close friends as well. Also the only thing I can think that could debunk them being gay for eachother was the fact that in both the books and the movie, Sam was in love with that girl and Fordo was encouraging Sam to try talk her, and we all know in the end Sam ends up being happily married to Rosie.

Plenty of gay people end up in heterosexual marriages because of social pressures (e.g. Ennis and Jack were both married women in Brokeback Mountain) -- and the Hobbit Shire is a very conservative and extremely insular society. Except for Bilbo, Sam, Frodo, Merry and Pippin, the Hobbits had no knowledge of anything else that transpired in Middle Earth... especially in the movies where the Scouring of the Shire never happened.

Also I'll admit my sucker for romance side was very unhappy with the Vok for interupting thier romantic moment. Dang you Vok!

Yeah, so inconsiderate. Although the Vok are practically saints considering their rather dark origins in Transformers: Generation 2 (re: the Swarm).

[Methane Ridge]

Tigatron's pod DNA scanning case seems to have brought some species-specific information, so since Tigatron is rational, he either knows the reasons behind his decisions, or accepts them as right. Since the information he has is both from Maximal hardware and species' sequence (likely Snowstalker sequence because she was there when the pod had arrived) (and the second way isn't missing, see the Inferno case, where we obviously see at least DNA preset data), one may suppose that that information contains something that he accepts as right, so he understands tigers more than without it, so he understands Snowstalker more than without it. The information may be enough for him to understand her so much that he becomes friend to her. If the DNA acquired is hers or someone from her family tree, he should be more like a brother to her.

...the fact is that Tigatron is a fully rational and sentient agent, whereas Snowstalker - as a wild animal - is not.

Besides, ecology care is not the data from Cybertron, it came from Earth, so, from there. It's not an irrational idea, or is it?

[SkyxDB]

That's cos you live in Prehistoric Earth. Writing and paper aren't invented yet! :p

Well no wonder. XD

Plenty of gay people end up in heterosexual marriages because of social pressures (e.g. Ennis and Jack were both married women in Brokeback Mountain) -- and the Hobbit Shire is a very conservative and extremely insular society. Except for Bilbo, Sam, Frodo, Merry and Pippin, the Hobbits had no knowledge of anything else that transpired in Middle Earth... especially in the movies where the Scouring of the Shire never happened.

You got a point there. Come to think I once saw an episode of Cold Case where a married man fell in love with the guy who was his partner on the police force. Even though the feelings were returned the married guy didn't want to leave his wife and kids and yeah the social pressures did get to him. But his partner on the hand wasn't gonna let the social pressures get to him and willing to stand up to them. But sadly it gets him murdered by another member of the police, leaving the the married guy to mourn for him and somewhere down the line him and his do discorve. I always though that story was sad.

Yeah, so inconsiderate. Although the Vok are practically saints considering their rather dark origins in Transformers: Generation 2 (re: the Swarm).

I'm not familar with that. What I know of the Vok is mainly from Beast Wars.

[GoktimusPrime]

Besides, ecology care is not the data from Cybertron, it came from Earth, so, from there. It's not an irrational idea, or is it?

One doesn't have to be from Earth to care about it's environment. There have been many Cybertronians who cared about Earth's environment such as Beachcomber and Optimus Prime; who once used a fragment of the Matrix to restore a forest habitat that had been badly damaged during a fight between the Autobot Rescue Patrol and the Decepticon Whisper (sacrificing the opportunity to resurrect a fallen Autobot warrior, which had been his initial intent).

I'm not familar with that. What I know of the Vok is mainly from Beast Wars.

Transformers Generation 2 revealed that in very ancient times, Transformers were able to asexually reproduce via a process known as 'budding' (also known as bio-morphic reproduction), where a protoform would spawn and detach from a 'parent' Transformer. Once Cybertron's population reached a certain limit, the Transformers lost this ability and all memory of it was erased. During the four million years that transpired after Optimus Prime, Megatron etc. left Cybertron (and indeed slumbered in pre-historic Earth during the events of the Beast Wars), back on Cybertron a new Decepticon Empire emerged and they rediscovered bio-morphic reproduction, allowing them to create a new generation of Decepticons (aka "Generation 2") - the 2nd Generation Decepticons became increasingly less emotional and - in some individuals - more inherently primal (as especially seen in the Decepticon Liege Centuro Jhiaxus), and a by-product of the creation of the 2nd Generation Cybertronians was the Swarm. The Swarm is a huge black mass that moves across galaxies and consumes life forms -- especially Transformers for which it particularly hungers for (since it originated from them). Transformers die a very slow and painful death as they were ravaged and consumed by the Swarm... the only thing that can protect them is an extremely rare gas known as Rheanimum (which was delivered to the Tranformers by none other than Megatron and his Decepticons ). Optimus Prime refused to use the Rheanimum to protect himself, instead allowing the Swarm to consume him. As they began eating him from the outside in, they eventually got to his core, which of course houses the Matrix. When the Swarm attempted to consume the Matrix, they unleashed its power which purified the Swarm. The Swarm then rebuilt Prime into a new body (which I personally like to believe is Hero Optimus Prime - just my personal fan interpretation :p), then left the Cybertronians for good... or so we thought. Purified by the Matrix, the Swarm evolved into a new species known as.... the Vok.

[Wicked Woman]

Transformers Generation 2 revealed that in very ancient times, Transformers were able to asexually reproduce via a process known as 'budding' (also known as bio-morphic reproduction), where a protoform would spawn and detach from a 'parent' Transformer. Once Cybertron's population reached a certain limit, the Transformers lost this ability and all memory of it was erased. During the four million years that transpired after Optimus Prime, Megatron etc. left Cybertron (and indeed slumbered in pre-historic Earth during the events of the Beast Wars), back on Cybertron a new Decepticon Empire emerged and they rediscovered bio-morphic reproduction, allowing them to create a new generation of Decepticons (aka "Generation 2") - the 2nd Generation Decepticons became increasingly less emotional and - in some individuals - more inherently primal (as especially seen in the Decepticon Liege Centuro Jhiaxus), and a by-product of the creation of the 2nd Generation Cybertronians was the Swarm. The Swarm is a huge black mass that moves across galaxies and consumes life forms -- especially Transformers for which it particularly hungers for (since it originated from them). Transformers die a very slow and painful death as they were ravaged and consumed by the Swarm... the only thing that can protect them is an extremely rare gas known as Rheanimum (which was delivered to the Tranformers by none other than Megatron and his Decepticons ). Optimus Prime refused to use the Rheanimum to protect himself, instead allowing the Swarm to consume him. As they began eating him from the outside in, they eventually got to his core, which of course houses the Matrix. When the Swarm attempted to consume the Matrix, they unleashed its power which purified the Swarm. The Swarm then rebuilt Prime into a new body (which I personally like to believe is Hero Optimus Prime - just my personal fan interpretation :p), then left the Cybertronians for good... or so we thought. Purified by the Matrix, the Swarm evolved into a new species known as.... the Vok.

If that's the case, and some people have thought Tarantulas was Generation 2, then he probably would've died in the timestream if anything happened to the Ark.

Back on Topic: Yeah, I always thought of Snowstalker as like a sister or Mother, but the girlfriend aspect has come to mind a few times. Someone's gonna have to ask Larry and Bob about this.


WW