Dark of the Moon [Discussion]

[Alak]

Regardless if we love or hate Michael Bay's take on Transformers, let's be perfectly honest and admit that he'll end up getting our money once these movies come out. I hated the second installment in his trilogy, but that's not going to deter me from watching "Dark of the Moon" (even in 3D if possible). We saw the teaser and discussed its implications. During the 2011 NFL Super Bowl, the official movie trailer is airing nationwide. I don't want to say that I am excited for this movie, but I'm definitely anticipating its release. Let's talk about what you want or do not want to see this time around:

- A plausible explanation as to why Sam isn't with Mikaela anymore. I've heard rumors being tossed around that she wanted him only for his connection with the Autobots and he got sick of it, but after rewatching the first two films this wouldn't really make sense to me.

- Other Autobots besides Optimus Prime and Bumblebee doing something useful.

- It wouldn't hurt to have a said Autobots being explored and opened to the audience (even though it is the last movie).

- Shockwave better look awesome if he's becoming the main bad guy.

- Give more screen time to the transformers' situation on Earth and less screen time to Sam and his personal life.

- Epic battle better happen to close the trilogy.

- Human military involvement was always cool, so I hope they keep that well integrated.

[GoktimusPrime]

I didn't hate Revenge of the Fallen, although I much prefer the first movie over it. ROTF had some good moments. It also had some terrible moments... it's a very inconsistent and bi-polar movie. TF1 on the other hand was fairly consistent and captured the spirit of the G1 cartoon quite well. Yeah sure, there wasn't much character development, but neither did the G1 cartoon -- which is why a lot of more serious G1 fans prefer the original Marvel G1 comics over the cartoon (the comics came first and long outlasted the cartoon). ROTF just got too ambitious... DOTM should work better if they keep to the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid).

- A plausible explanation as to why Sam isn't with Mikaela anymore. I've heard rumors being tossed around that she wanted him only for his connection with the Autobots and he got sick of it, but after rewatching the first two films this wouldn't really make sense to me.

She ran off with Barricade.

- Other Autobots besides Optimus Prime and Bumblebee doing something useful.

Jolt who?

- It wouldn't hurt to have a said Autobots being explored and opened to the audience (even though it is the last movie).

The problem with a movie is that you have limited time to develop characters so you need to focus on a small core. But yeah, we don't need to develop Bumblebee or Optimus Prime anymore... in fact, I think we're pretty good with all the Autobots from TF1. And we've had enough with the Twins thanks. They could work on some of the underdeveloped characters from ROTF (e.g. Sideswipe and "that blue guy" :p), or even any new Autobots they may choose to introduce in DotM... just someone OTHER than Optimus Prime and Bumblebee!

Or better yet -- develop a Decepticon (other than Megatron or Starscream)! Both TF1 and ROTF treated most of the Decepticons as set pieces rather than characters... especially ROTF which treated them as big giant monster robots. (-_-) It'd be nice to have the audience actually emotionally invest in a villain, much like how the audience empathised with Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi, or how there was empathy for Sméagol/Gollum in The Lord of the Rings. Villains are "people" too. I have to say that's one thing I really liked about Beast Machines, but I'll comment more about that on the relevant thread.

- Shockwave better look awesome if he's becoming the main bad guy.

I'd like to see Shockwave be like his G1 comic counterpart -- cold, calculating, ruthless... utterly devoid of emotion or morality. I do NOT want to see Shockwave being portrayed like his G1 cartoon counterpart -- a complete brown-nose to Megatron (which is pretty impressive considering that he doesn't have a nose :p). A pretty boring character.

Speaking of G1 Comic Shockwave, I recreated the famous cover on #5 using my G1 Shockwave toy...

- Give more screen time to the transformers' situation on Earth and less screen time to Sam and his personal life.

YES! Less focus on humans in general. The movie's called "Transformers" damnit. I understand the need to have humans in order to help the general audience to relate to them and see the Transformers from the humans' eyes, but yeah... the Transformers themselves need to be treated more as characters.

- Human military involvement was always cool, so I hope they keep that well integrated.

I thought there's been too much focus on that. Needs to be scaled back IMO... give more screen time for the robots.

[Alak]

Actually, if they could develop a Decepticon, I really hope it'd be Shockwave (everyone else just dies left and right). I felt that the Decepticons were a bit too generic in the past two films, and even Megatron lost half his intelligence. G1 comic Shockwave would be fantastic since he'd be the first strategic villain this series would have. Wasn't it G1 Shockwave who succeeded in fighting the Dinobots to a standstill? This guy better be a serious boss fight in ever confrontation he gets. I'd like Bay to recreate the image of him having a power struggle with Megatron and standing victorious over his body. I also want motivation this time around. Maybe he'll be a Clu-like character from Tron where he's simply someone who wishes to forge a perfect society for Cybertron, and he realizes that neither Optimus nor Megatron's ideologies coincide with his idea of perfection.

[GoktimusPrime]

I felt that the Decepticons were a bit too generic in the past two films,

YES! The Decepticons have just been shafted as characters in the films so far. And would it hurt to see Soundwave transform?

G1 comic Shockwave would be fantastic since he'd be the first strategic villain this series would have. Wasn't it G1 Shockwave who succeeded in fighting the Dinobots to a standstill?

The battle between Shockwave and the Dinobots in the Savage Land ended in a stalemate with all of them falling into a tar pit which trapped them for the next four million years.

This guy better be a serious boss fight in ever confrontation he gets. I'd like Bay to recreate the image of him having a power struggle with Megatron and standing victorious over his body.

This was always a pretty awesome battle in G1...

...would be cool to see this in the movie.

I also want motivation this time around. Maybe he'll be a Clu-like character from Tron where he's simply someone who wishes to forge a perfect society for Cybertron, and he realizes that neither Optimus nor Megatron's ideologies coincide with his idea of perfection.

If you're gonna be true to the G1 comic character, the only motivation that drives him is logic. In G1 he overthrew Megatron not for personal reasons, but because he deemed it as the logical step. When Megatron later on pointed out that it would be logical for him to return leadership to Megatron, Shockwave concurred and stepped down allowing Megatron to resume command.

But I wouldn't hold my breath for Michael Bay to make Shockwave accurate to his G1 counterpart... so many other movie characters are quite different from their namesakes. e.g.
+ Optimus Prime: in the first movie he was a good match to his G1 counterpart, but in ROTF he was more like Dai Atlas (especially in Shanghai).
+ Wheelie: NOTHING like his G1 counterpart... aside from being small and annoying.
+ Jetfire: his origins as a Decepticon turned Autobot are similar to his G1 origins (both in the comics and cartoon), but otherwise his persona's more like Kup... only more senile.
+ Mudflap: nothing like his Cybertron counterpart (especially his allegiance!)
+ Skids: nothing at all like his G1 counterpart.
+ Jolt: hard to judge since he barely does anything... but his "change" of allegiance feels as odd as Mudflap's.

Although some other characters were reasonably close, like Ratchet, Ironhide, Starscream, Jazz, Bumblebee ('cept for his inability to talk and goofy antics)... other characters just didn't do enough to be able to make a comparison really (again, just treated too much like set pieces). Oh, and Michael Bay's version of The Fallen is like a Diet-Coke version of the original The Fallen.

[WorpeX]

So I dont know anything about the original transformers stuff besides Micheal Bay's remake and whats in BW and BM. So with that said, I can't really argue about character development much since... I don't know the characters. I would like to see them do more with the transformers though and less with the humans. I really don't like Sam that much. Or his girlfriend. Or his family. If it were up to me I'd say to keep humans out of Transformers completely, but since its not, less of them would be fine too. Oh, and less of those annoying twins too. Actually, none of them would be perfect. xD

[Alak]

Yeah Sam bugs me, too. He seems to only get in the way until they need a human character to save the day. His moment of glory was when he shoved the cube into Megatron's chest (only for the guy to come back angrier with an extra alt. mode). He resurrected Optimus Prime but that's because he was the reason for his death in the first place. He spends half the time in battle either running or hiding. Just thinking about his character makes me angry. I'll stop ranting about him now.

Now, I know that I'm probably in the uber small minority here, but I think Mikaela's character had potential. She probably just fell victim to the direction, writing, and actress' unpolished performance. Try looking at the character on paper rather than on screen (hard, I know). If Michael bay wasn't so obsessed with having a sex-appeal character in every movie, Mikaela would have turned out to be decent. She seems to contribute more than Sam imo.

- Saves Sam from Frenzy with an electronic saw (because he was too busy running and screaming)
- Provides the ability to jump start vehicles (shown in Mission City and at Sam's university)
- Even though she made an insult, it's that insult that makes Bumblebee switch to a vehicle mode that everyone drooled over.
- Gives Bumblebee a much-needed assistance in scoring a kill against Brawl (a Decepticon who survived the combined attacks of Ironhide, Jazz, Ratchet, and the human military)
- Stops Wheelie from taking the All-Spark fragment and proceeds to hold him captive
- Saves Sam from the Pretender even after walking in on them kissing (she actually chooses to turn back instead of walk away)
- Proceeds to kill said Pretender with a car she hot wired
- She's a freakin' mechanic. We're talking about robots who transform into cars. She has the potential to become a Sparkplug clone!

Granted, the director probably wanted her to wear make-up even in the heat of battle in Egypt and provide gratuitous cleavage shots at inappropriate times. Megan Fox being an amateur actress doesn't help either, but at least even she realizes that she sucked in Transformers. She also needed to practice tone variation, because she sounded bored out of her mind in the first video game. Good voice actors tend to be good stage actors because they are able to convey their emotions without being reliant on body language.

[GoktimusPrime]

As much as I don't like Megan Fox, it's possible that Rosie Huntington-Whiteley (RHW) could be worse. As amateur as Fox's acting was, at least she ASPIRED to become an actress (whether or not she can ever become a decent actress is beside the point, at least she wants to be one). RHW on the other hand is a lingerie model. Her career objective is to look good in lingerie, not to act.

I support losing Fox cos her acting was always horrible - and she's honest NOT even good looking (I've met her IRL). But replacing her with someone with potentially LESS acting talent/ability??? As crummy as Fox's acting was, at least she made an effort. Not sure if RHW will do the same unless she honestly/seriously wants to cross over from modelling to acting.

[Night-Hunter]

- A plausible explanation as to why Sam isn't with Mikaela anymore. I've heard rumors being tossed around that she wanted him only for his connection with the Autobots and he got sick of it, but after rewatching the first two films this wouldn't really make sense to me.

Actually, that makes perfect sense to me, the only reason Mikaela got involed was because Sam paid more attention to thing in his pants then to the brain in his head. (I'm sorry, if i offend the mechs on this sight ^^; )

- Other Autobots besides Optimus Prime and Bumblebee doing something useful.

As much as I love Optimus and Bumblebee, I agree, the other Autobots need to do some thing useful.

- It wouldn't hurt to have a said Autobots being explored and opened to the audience

Totally agree with you.

- Shockwave better look awesome if he's becoming the main bad guy.

Oh, he better look bad a** in this movie, other wise the Shockwave Fan girls are gonna have a heart attack and die from disappointment and broken hearts.

- Give more screen time to the transformers' situation on Earth and less screen time to Sam and his personal life.

Again totally agree with you, I didn't watch a whole lot of G1 TF on youtube, but enough to know that they paid more attention to the Autobots and Decepticons then to the humans.

- Epic battle better happen to close the trilogy.

Knowing Michael Bay, he might or might not disappoint us.

- Human military involvement was always cool, so I hope they keep that well integrated.

Same here, but with the military involved... to me it feels like they're holding the Autobots back.

As much as I don't like Megan Fox, it's possible that Rosie Huntington-Whiteley (RHW) could be worse. As amateur as Fox's acting was, at least she ASPIRED to become an actress (whether or not she can ever become a decent actress is beside the point, at least she wants to be one). RHW on the other hand is a lingerie model. Her career objective is to look good in lingerie, not to act.

The only reason Rosie Huntington-Whiteley is because she looks hot and the fact that she's worked with Micheal bay in the past. That's the only reason why she is even in the thrid movie.

- Saves Sam from Frenzy with an electronic saw

Yeah well, you'd run to if you saw some crazy-monkey-Midget on acid robot come running at out wanting to kidnap you because you have a pair of glasses that your grandfather had.

- Provides the ability to jump start vehicles

Anyone with street smarts could do that, i know I can't.

- Even though she made an insult, it's that insult that makes Bumblebee switch to a vehicle mode that everyone drooled over.

That's when you dump said person on the side of the road and never look back, even though I admit the new form was awesome.

- Gives Bumblebee a much-needed assistance in scoring a kill against Brawl (a Decepticon who survived the combined attacks of Ironhide, Jazz, Ratchet, and the human military)

Which was totally awesome. Well, Ratchet did take his arm with his creepy buzz saw, And if you didn't notice Ironhide didn't hit Brawl with any of his shots, he was doing some really cool flips.

Stops Wheelie from taking the All-Spark fragment and proceeds to hold him captive

Which to me, wasn't really needed, because all she could have done was dropped kicked his little butt out of the store or have the dog just eat him.

Saves Sam from the Pretender even after walking in on them kissing (she actually chooses to turn back instead of walk away)

Who wouldn't turn back, I mean the pretender made enough noise to wake the dead. But hearing Sam scream like a girl was worth it.

Proceeds to kill said Pretender with a car she hot wired

Again, awesome.

She's a freakin' mechanic. We're talking about robots who transform into cars. She has the potential to become a Sparkplug clone!

So is my uncle, then again there are no talking robots around... far as we know.

Granted, the director probably wanted her to wear make-up even in the heat of battle in Egypt and provide gratuitous cleavage shots at inappropriate times. Megan Fox being an amateur actress doesn't help either, but at least even she realizes that she sucked in Transformers. She also needed to practice tone variation, because she sounded bored out of her mind in the first video game. Good voice actors tend to be good stage actors because they are able to convey their emotions without being reliant on body language

have you noticed that almost all of his movies, have really, really good looking women in it, I admit the guys are hot as well. But the woman tend to ware cloths that make them look like sluts. Ok, i have to get this off my chest. WHO THE HECK WHERE'S CALF HIGH BOOTS IN THE DESERT, WHILE ON THE RUN FROM DECEPTICONS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD PUT SOME TENNIES ON!!!

[Alak]

Yeah well, you'd run to if you saw some crazy-monkey-Midget on acid robot come running at out wanting to kidnap you because you have a pair of glasses that your grandfather had.

That's my point. Mikaela didn't run even though she's the "ditzy, shallow" girl every hater makes her out to be. Let's be real, most girls nowadays would run away screaming their heads off if they were anywhere near killer robots. This one chose to stay and fight for some guy who had the typical teenage boy intentions with her.

Anyone with street smarts could do that, i know I can't.

How many people in both movies have we seen with "street smarts" so far? One: Mikaela. That alone makes her the only character in the movie who can hot wire a car. Simmons has access to high clearance military officers and files. Lennox and Epps are ranked officers in the US military with combat experience. Maggie and Glen are professional computer hackers and programmers. These people have proved their worth in the film. On the other hand, Sam has no skills other than being the guy who somehow gets responsibility for the Cube and the Matrix. Sam's parents are there as a plot device (i.e.- hostages) and for humor. Leo is just for comedic purposes. Essentially, everyone bashes the arm candy of the film while it's really the protagonist, his family, and his roommate who are worthless.

Which to me, wasn't really needed, because all she could have done was dropped kicked his little butt out of the store or have the dog just eat him.

Regardless of method, it would have been her role to stop him. She was entrusted in keeping the All-Spark safe and she did her job well.

Who wouldn't turn back, I mean the pretender made enough noise to wake the dead. But hearing Sam scream like a girl was worth it.

Again, if Mikaela was truly the ditzy, shallow girl that everyone made her out to be, she would have kept walking. Face it, you book a plane ticket (not exactly cheap) to visit your boyfriend (who already stood you up for your first video chat date) and you walk in on him making out with girl who is arguably hotter than you. His first reaction upon seeing you is giving you a dumb look and saying your name. As soon as you start walking away he starts calling your name and whatnot, and within seconds starts yelling. Would you honestly feel like turning back just to make sure he's going ok? I'm not a girl so don't take my word for granted, but I would probably ignore him... forever. We're talking about a woman who was brave enough (or just stupidly in love) go back to this guy.

have you noticed that almost all of his movies, have really, really good looking women in it, I admit the guys are hot as well. But the woman tend to ware cloths that make them look like sluts. Ok, i have to get this off my chest. WHO THE HECK WHERE'S CALF HIGH BOOTS IN THE DESERT, WHILE ON THE RUN FROM DECEPTICONS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD PUT SOME TENNIES ON!!!

Well, think about it from this perspective. She wore those boots (and those clothes) when she went to go visit Sam. Obviously, she's trying to look good for her boyfriend. Then, the whole Alice things comes around ---> car abduction by Grinder ---> Megatron returns and trys to get his goonies to do brain surgery on her boyfriend ---> big battle ---> Optimus dies ---> go resurrect Jetfire with the All-Spark (instead of Optimus) ---> get teleported against her will to Egypt. I don't think changing clothes was on any of their minds. Now, there was some down time that allowed Sam to get all angsty and them to find Simmons. She could've just walked in a store and bought shoes with her travel money. I guess it depends on your priorities at the time lol.

[Blazemane]

I am looking forward to this movie a lot and have been since before the beginning of the school year.

I enjoy the second movie, but I had desperately wanted robot character development. Don't feel like it happened (on a personal note, feature Ironhide more. What they have done with him in this series has been fun to watch and he is my favorite movie line toy).

So I especially agree on that point- I hope the Transformers get more development in the 3rd movie.

And I hope Shockwave will be awesome.

[GoktimusPrime]

have you noticed that almost all of his movies, have really, really good looking women in it, I admit the guys are hot as well. But the woman tend to ware cloths that make them look like sluts. Ok, i have to get this off my chest. WHO THE HECK WHERE'S CALF HIGH BOOTS IN THE DESERT, WHILE ON THE RUN FROM DECEPTICONS, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD PUT SOME TENNIES ON!!!

Hey hey hey, I object!! Megan Fox is _not_ really, really good looking!

Here's what she looks like on professional film...


...and here's what she looks like in real life (as taken by my amateur no-frills photography)...


She's by no means ugly, but I wouldn't rate her as "hot" either.

[Alak]

lol the pic is so small you can't make out any of the features! Appearance is all relative. Someone looks all glamorous in a high definition movie, and then they look so normal in real life that in comparison we think they're ugly. Right now, I don't even think the new girl looks good but my mind will probably change once I see her on the big screen. Anyways, I always preferred how Fox looked back when she was on TV as opposed to the Hollywood look that she's rocking right now.

[GoktimusPrime]

This better?



...just pretty average looking IMO. :/

[Alak]

That's because you live in Sydney. Half your girls look like that lol. That's above average here in Arizona.

[The Crab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTG95T1hsxQ

Have your minds freshly re-blown, my friends.