Beast Machines was horrible.

[WorpeX]

I know there have probably been a million different topics about this in the past, but I have just finished watching the entire thing (after years of refusing to do so) and I wanted to rant for a little while. The only reason I even was able to get through the series was because the overall story arc wasn't too bad. In fact, the story was pretty good and it kept me watching. It was however, not something I would have ever understood as a kid, and one of few things the series did right. The others were voice acting and music. Oh, and also shadows.

As a kid, I was a huge fan of Beast Wars and considered the character designs in BM an atrocity when compared to their original forms (especially rattraps, ewww). Now that I have had the chance to watch the full thing.... i'm still sticking to that opinion. The character artwork is the worst in the entirety of the transformers franchise by far and even the characters created especially for it looked terrible. Their beast modes were the only thing tolerable. Almost every single Maximal's robot form was horrendous. To name a few especially ugly ones: Rattrap's entire look made a mockery of his original design. In Beast Wars he always had an edgy look to make his personality 'fit' his character. In Beast Machines... he looked like a nerd who drank too many redbulls which made his voice awkward to listen to when he spoke. Silverbolt just looked rediculous and Botanica looked like a bald headed monk. With that said however, most of the Vehicons looked pretty good, especially Thrust and Jetstorm.

Now, that part is tolerable. I can deal with some ugly looking art. But what really ruined the entire show for me was the fact that almost every maximal became a superhero. Instead of having weapons like guns or swords... they used abilities? Blackarachnia touched the ground and made some sort of fissure, optimus had a dragonball wave thing, cheetor had superspeed and the bat thing (forgot his name already) emitted sound waves from his face that somehow made steel blow up. Furthermore, they all could take on an entire battalion of tanks, cars and planes effortlessly and seemingly without tiring or getting damaged. The rare times they actually managed get hit by something, they shrugged it off as if it was nothing pretty quickly. I don't remember seeing any episode where they actually received damage beyond some sparks flying out of them. I ended up skipping through a few battle sequences because I just couldn't watch it. I felt like I was watching the justice league or something.

From what I had read, the major issue with the series was people not liking the character development that was done. For me, I didn't really have a problem with much of it. Blackarachnia was a little bit overly nice though, even as a Maximal in beast wars she was still not trustworthy and scheming. Other than her, I can understand the hate for what they did to Rhinox although that to me seemed rather natural. He was always susceptible to predicon programming, as evidence by one of the earlier BW episodes. The other characters seemed to have a pretty similar personality. The only other thing to note was that Jetsorm was awesome. Its a shame he turned into such a worthless character halfway through the series. I really can't think of anything Silverbolt did to help the Maximals besides killing some drones.

So ya. I just realized how much I just ranted so I think i'll stop now. In conclusion, the storyline of the show was very good but other essential elements such as art and combat styles were just terrible. The only thing i'd say what was done better in this than in Beast Wars was shadows (because they actually existed!). Even the modeling, textures and animations were worse (and explosions were drawn in, what the hell is with that?). I know others may have liked the series, but I for one, did not. Although it could be my massive bias towards Beast Wars talking. xD

[JazZeke]

The character derailment enraged me as a kid. And the nonsensical "organic matter" phlebotinum just made no sense. It's like the writers didn't even understand what "organic" meant.

Interesting that you compare the Maximals to superheros, though. Marv Wolfman was the main creator behind the series and wrote the show's bible. He became a geek-famous writer in the 80s when he took over Teen Titans and created the characters of Beast Boy, Cyborg, Raven (that one makes sense don't it?) and Starfire.

[Alak]

I like Beast Machines as an independent story from Beast Wars. However, if I look at it as a continuity of Beast Wars, then I don't like it as much.

[GoktimusPrime]

I know there have probably been a million different topics about this in the past, but I have just finished watching the entire thing (after years of refusing to do so) and I wanted to rant for a little while. The only reason I even was able to get through the series was because the overall story arc wasn't too bad. In fact, the story was pretty good and it kept me watching. It was however, not something I would have ever understood as a kid, and one of few things the series did right. The others were voice acting and music. Oh, and also shadows.

Animation-wise, Beast Machines was a big improvement over Beast Wars. Story-wise... yeah. On one hand, it digs really deep philosophically (re: Aristotle, Daoism etc.) and from a science fiction POV brings a lot to the table. But on the other hand, the story-telling itself is rather dull, especially in Season One which just had episode after episode of the Maximals running away from Vehicons. And everyone just got sick and tired of Optimus Primal hammering his "Seeds of the Future" line into our skulls over and over and over again and again and again! You could probably play a drinking game based on that line. :p The story was also just too adult (and arguably dull)... Beast Wars had a good balance of action and slap stick humour for kids to enjoy, but also a good edgy story (and cleverly disguised adult humour ) for adults to enjoy. Beast Machines lacked this balance (which is kinda ironic considering that achieving balance was the entire focal point of the ongoing story! )

But Beast Machines will be most notoriously remembered for "killing" Transformers continuity. From 1984 until Beast Machines Transformers had, more or less, one "main" overall continuity-family with several continuity members within it (e.g. G1 cartoon, G1 comics, Ladybird Books etc etc.). One of the great things Beast Wars did was to add and enrich this continuity family. Beast Machines on the other hand, took this continuity-family and shoved it in a dead end. At the end of Beast Machines Cybertron became a Technorganic world. Right... how do you continue from that? You can either continue showing Cybertron as a technorganic planet, which has proven to be an unpopular concept, or you can try to undo what BM did and change Cybertron back to being a technological world (thus making the Maximals' struggle completely useless), or take the story off-world (as Universe did).

So ever since Beast Machines; the majority of Transformer writers just haven't bothered to even attempt continuing where the old Transformers continuity-family ended. Instead, we've just seen multitudes of continuity reboots -- The Unicron Trilogy, Dreamwave TF universe, IDW TF universe, movie universe, Animated, Prime etc. Long gone now are the days when Transformers were part of a single umbrella continuity family... and if this is to be Beast Machines' greatest legacy on Transformers, it's not a very good one.

As a kid, I was a huge fan of Beast Wars and considered the character designs in BM an atrocity when compared to their original forms (especially rattraps, ewww). Now that I have had the chance to watch the full thing.... i'm still sticking to that opinion. The character artwork is the worst in the entirety of the transformers franchise by far and even the characters created especially for it looked terrible. Their beast modes were the only thing tolerable. Almost every single Maximal's robot form was horrendous. To name a few especially ugly ones: Rattrap's entire look made a mockery of his original design. In Beast Wars he always had an edgy look to make his personality 'fit' his character. In Beast Machines... he looked like a nerd who drank too many redbulls which made his voice awkward to listen to when he spoke. Silverbolt just looked rediculous and Botanica looked like a bald headed monk. With that said however, most of the Vehicons looked pretty good, especially Thrust and Jetstorm.

Yeah, the Vehicons were alright, but a lot of the Maximals were just... blecch. At least with the Vehicons you knew what they transformed into. Jetstorm's a jet, Tankor's a tank, Thrust is a bike etc. You take Silverbolt and look at his beast mode... what the HELL is that?? A condor? Rriiiiiggghhhhtt... in Beast Machines, Hasbro actually had to PRINT what the toys' alt modes were on the packaging itself - like here -- if you look under the name "SILVERBOLT" it says "Condor." You know there's something wrong when you have to tell people what the hell the alt modes are meant to be!

Another problem was that Hasbro rushed Mainframe to create the cartoon to quickly - and thus the cartoon models seem to be based on early conceptual images. As a result the cartoon models just don't look a lot like the toys. With Beast Wars, Hasbro sent Mainframe samples of the toys, which Mainframe would then build CGI models based on 3D scans of the toys. There's also obvious that the animators played around with the toys, such as Transmetal Optimus Primal's robot Battle Mode. It's not an official mode for the toy, but the toy _can_ be configured that way... it's like one of those intermediary modes you discover when playing around with a toy.

From what I had read, the major issue with the series was people not liking the character development that was done. For me, I didn't really have a problem with much of it. Blackarachnia was a little bit overly nice though, even as a Maximal in beast wars she was still not trustworthy and scheming. Other than her, I can understand the hate for what they did to Rhinox although that to me seemed rather natural. He was always susceptible to predicon programming, as evidence by one of the earlier BW episodes.

Rhinox's morals were forcibly corrupted due to Predacon reprogramming. It happened to Optimus Primal too when he was infected by Scorponok's Cyber-Bee virus. What happened to Rhinox is Beast Machines is entirely different -- Rhinox, Silverbolt and Waspinator were all reprogrammed by Megatron to serve the Vehicon cause, and eventually this reprogramming was undone allowing them to become their original selves and restored their free will. But even with his free will restored, Rhinox continued to remain loyal to the Vehicon cause (although he thought that in order to serve the cause he needed to overthrow Megatron). Rhinox's rationale was that he agreed with the Vehicon cause -- the idea of machines' "racial superiority" over organics. Since WHEN did Rhinox ever feel this way?? Beast Machines Rhinox isn't necessarily a bad character, he's just not the SAME character as Beast Wars Rhinox -- and this is wrong because he is meant to be the same character.

Blackarachnia was well developed though, I'd agree with that. We always saw her progression toward being a heroic character in Beast Wars.

The other characters seemed to have a pretty similar personality.

Some yes, others no. Cheetor was well developed - in fact, I think he was the best developed character from Beast Wars to Beast Machines. In Beast Wars we saw Cheetor go through being a kid to being a teenager (remember when he became a Transmetal 2 and Rattrap remarked, "Joy... Cyber-puberty...") -- then in Beast Machines he took the next step and became a young adult. Cheetor is, much like many young adults, very capable and qualified to do his job, but is often doubted and criticised by his older contemporaries due to his youth and lack of experience. He's dying for a chance to prove himself. It's a lot like when you've just graduated and you're looking for a job, but a lot of prospective employers may doubt you because even though you have the qualifications, you just lack experience.

Megatron was poorly developed. He is an entirely different character in BM than he was in BW. First of all, BW Megatron had NO problem with organic life... yeah he ultimately saw them as worthless fleshlings, but he didn't necessarily despise them to the point where he would wage a genocidal war against them. And he certainly didn't object to having a beast mode during the Beast Wars. If anything, the Beast Wars Second Predacons ('cept for the Cyber Beasts) would have greater claim to the Vehicon cause since none of them had organic alt modes. Secondly there was no hint in BW that Megatron objected to individual free will. If anything, he was very good at pitting individuals against each other for his own benefit. Thirdly, BW Megatron _revelled_ in being a villain. At the end of The Agenda, he said "Evil has triumphed!" as he gloated to Optimus Primal after having attempted to assassinate Optimus Prime. BM Megatron on the other hand doesn't see himself as being evil - if anything he sees himself as Cybertron's saviour. He brought peace to Cybertron by removing individual free will and he wanted to keep Cybertron pure as a mechanical world. BM Megatron had no personal malice in his cause.

Now okay, one could argue that this makes BM Megatron a more interesting villain as nobody really ever sees themselves as being a villain. Being a hero or villain is dependent on one's point of view... for example a lot of the early American "Patriots" were considered terrorists by the British. But as interesting as BM Megatron is as a character, he just isn't the same character as BW Megatron, but he's meant to be!

Optimus Primal became this brooding dark character - which is understandable as he bears the guilt of losing the Beast Wars and feels responsible for what Megatron's done to Cybertron... but the problem here is that it just dragged too long. The same thing happened with Silverbolt... yeah okay, you guys made mistakes and now you're all sad and brooding... as the armies said in Monty Python and the Holy Grail... "GET ON WITH IT!!" :p Heroes going emo (for an extended period of time) is boooooring.

As for the Maximals' combat style... guns are machine weapons. Melee fighting is organic. Still lame, I know, but that's the reason why.

Beast Machines, in itself, is a good story. But as a Transformers series and as a sequel to Beast Wars, it has a lot of flaws. Beast Machines would actually be a better story if it weren't related to Beast Wars or Transformers - if you changed the characters, setting etc. -- but the fact is, it was absolutely part of Beast Wars and Transformers, and that was its ultimate failing IMHO.

I like Beast Machines as an independent story from Beast Wars. However, if I look at it as a continuity of Beast Wars, then I don't like it as much.

Yup, I totally agree with this.

[WorpeX]

Animation-wise, Beast Machines was a big improvement over Beast Wars

I completely disagree. Maybe in technology and cost to make, but it looked worse from an observer standpoint. The maximals didn't even transform, they magic'ed into robot form. Their facial animations were pretty much on par with BW, perhaps worse. In BW there were all kinds of emotions thrown into their faces including love, hate, happiness, sadness, pain, pretty much everything you can possibly think of while BM really only had sadness and just a normal expression. Surprise also a few times, but really thats it. Even when they won I dont remember them ever really being happy. Furthermore, as mentioned before, explosions were drawn in which isn't computer animation at all. Water looks terrible in BM, granted it didn't look good in BW at first either, by season 3 it really started to look great. Sooo I really can't see where its a big improvement.

I agree with everything else you had said. I never thought about Megatron that way before, but now that you mention it your totally right. His character was considerably different in personality. As far as Rhinox goes, like I said, I can see why people would be bothered by it but it doesn't seem too bad to me. Although I never really liked the character, even in BW he wasn't really very interesting to me.

Interesting story about the Transformers continuity, I never knew it effected anything other than BW before.

As for the Maximals' combat style... guns are machine weapons. Melee fighting is organic. Still lame, I know, but that's the reason why.

Ya, it makes sense but its still dumb and very unrealistic. Generally, i'm not one to get bothered by realism in cartoon shows, but when they go over the edge and start making things up completely it does get under my skin. This goes over the edge for me. I don't really like super-hero movies or cartoons much for the same reason. Sorry, unless its properly explained creating some kind of crazy fissure with your bare hands just isn't possible. Neither is throwing balls of energy from nothing.

I like Beast Machines as an independent story from Beast Wars. However, if I look at it as a continuity of Beast Wars, then I don't like it as much.

Yes. ^^

[SkyxDB]

Well personally I kind of see Beast Machines, interesting idea, bad execution. Granted I find it interesting to watch every now and then, but I still don't like what they did to the surviving Beast Wars characters. Though when I was kid, I watched this series after Beast Wars, and I guess I kept watching it mostly for the Beast Wars charatcers and plus some of the new charatcers were interesting too. Though when I was kid, I remember that Rattrap agreeing to guard Megatron for one night in exchange for weapons kind of through me for a loop, because to me it just seemed like something he wouldn't do. But of course I had heard that arguement that he's never been in a situation before where he felt useless, so that may be debatable.

Megatron was poorly developed. He is an entirely different character in BM than he was in BW. First of all, BW Megatron had NO problem with organic life... yeah he ultimately saw them as worthless fleshlings, but he didn't necessarily despise them to the point where he would wage a genocidal war against them. And he certainly didn't object to having a beast mode during the Beast Wars. If anything, the Beast Wars Second Predacons ('cept for the Cyber Beasts) would have greater claim to the Vehicon cause since none of them had organic alt modes. Secondly there was no hint in BW that Megatron objected to individual free will. If anything, he was very good at pitting individuals against each other for his own benefit. Thirdly, BW Megatron _revelled_ in being a villain. At the end of The Agenda, he said "Evil has triumphed!" as he gloated to Optimus Primal after having attempted to assassinate Optimus Prime. BM Megatron on the other hand doesn't see himself as being evil - if anything he sees himself as Cybertron's saviour. He brought peace to Cybertron by removing individual free will and he wanted to keep Cybertron pure as a mechanical world. BM Megatron had no personal malice in his cause.

Now okay, one could argue that this makes BM Megatron a more interesting villain as nobody really ever sees themselves as being a villain. Being a hero or villain is dependent on one's point of view... for example a lot of the early American "Patriots" were considered terrorists by the British. But as interesting as BM Megatron is as a character, he just isn't the same character as BW Megatron, but he's meant to be!

Yeah, I tottal agre with that. Plus even as a kid I found it weird that he wanted to get rid of his dragon alt-mode. Especially since he seemed to like that form in Beast Wars. Also I don't remember which episode of BM it was when he told Optimus he wanted harmony, but when I first heard that as a kid my first thought was, "Who is he, and what has he done with the real Megatron?"

Cheetor was well developed - in fact, I think he was the best developed character from Beast Wars to Beast Machines. In Beast Wars we saw Cheetor go through being a kid to being a teenager (remember when he became a Transmetal 2 and Rattrap remarked, "Joy... Cyber-puberty...") -- then in Beast Machines he took the next step and became a young adult. Cheetor is, much like many young adults, very capable and qualified to do his job, but is often doubted and criticised by his older contemporaries due to his youth and lack of experience. He's dying for a chance to prove himself. It's a lot like when you've just graduated and you're looking for a job, but a lot of prospective employers may doubt you because even though you have the qualifications, you just lack experience

That I agree with too. Though I'll admit when I was younger I didn't care much for the more adult Cheetor and was missing the more carefree Cheetor from Beast Wars. But now that I look at it I can see that Cheetor got some good developed and had really matured. Heck, I remember talking to a guy I know IRL about BM, and he said that he think BM Cheetor is how G1 Rodimus should have been. Though a friend I talked ot about BM on another website said that she disagreed with that way Cheetor's develop went in BM. Mostly because she felt that considering Cheetor didn't become completely solemn over the events of BW, she doubted that what was happening in BM would do same. Again another subject I think is debatable.

Also I didn't like what they did Rhinox either. When I was kid, I just blamed Megatron for that, because I assumed his change was a result of Megatron messing around with his spark. But when you think about Rhinox becoming anti-organic doens't really make much sense, considering that in BW he was a guy who liked to litterally stop and smell the flowers.

if you look under the name "SILVERBOLT" it says "Condor." You know there's something wrong when you have to tell people what the hell the alt modes are meant to be!

Oh he's a condor in BM. I always though he was vulture. ^^;

But overall I do agree that BM probably would have been better off as stand alone series than a sequel to BW.

[GoktimusPrime]

I completely disagree. Maybe in technology and cost to make, but it looked worse from an observer standpoint. The maximals didn't even transform, they magic'ed into robot form. Their facial animals were pretty much on par with BW, perhaps worse. In BW there were all kinds of emotions thrown into their faces including love, hate, happiness, sadness, pain, pretty much everything you can possibly think of while BM really only had sadness and just a normal expression. Surprise also a few times, but really thats it. Even when they won I dont remember them ever really being happy. Furthermore, as mentioned before, explosions were drawn in which isn't computer animation at all. Water looks terrible in BM, granted it didn't look good in BW at first either, by season 3 it really started to look great. Sooo I really can't see where its a big improvement.

Well, Beast Wars won an Emmy Award for its animation... Beast Machines didn't. So probably relative to the standards of the day, the animation in BM wasn't as good as that in BW. I thought there was really good facial emoting in BM though... yes, a lot of it was sadness cos Beast Machines is teh emo.

Ya, it makes sense but its still dumb and very unrealistic. Generally, i'm not one to get bothered by realism in cartoon shows, but when they go over the edge and start making things up completely it does get under my skin. This goes over the edge for me. I don't really like super-hero movies or cartoons much for the same reason. Sorry, unless its properly explained creating some kind of crazy fissure with your bare hands just isn't possible. Neither is throwing balls of energy from nothing.

KaaaammmmeeeeehhhhaaaaammmmeeeeeHHHHAAAAAA! :p :p Melee fighting just doesn't work against automatic guns. Star Wars explains it through the Force - a "magical" ability that allows unique individuals (Jedi and Sith) to be able to use melee weapons (light sabres) against automatic guns (blasters). But even then, it's a rare ability... the majority of individuals in the Star Wars universe still need to use guns.

Though when I was kid, I remember that Rattrap agreeing to guard Megatron for one night in exchange for weapons kind of through me for a loop, because to me it just seemed like something he wouldn't do. But of course I had heard that arguement that he's never been in a situation before where he felt useless, so that may be debatable.

Nah I don't buy that argument. In Beast Wars Rattrap was like MacGuyver... he'd find a way out of ANY situation, no matter how badly the odds were stacked up against him; he was the master of improvisation. Look at the way he outmanouevred Sentinel in "A Better Mousetrap", and also in "The Agenda" when he was trying to blowtorch his way into Ravage's ship, and his blowtorch died on him, he just transformed and literally used his TEETH to bite his way in!

Can't transform to robot mode? The Rattrap we knew in Beast Wars would have found a way to make that work to his advantage.

Yeah, I tottal agre with that. Plus even as a kid I found it weird that he wanted to get rid of his dragon alt-mode. Especially since he seemed to like that form in Beast Wars.

He sure did! You watch him in Seasons 1 and 3... he often treated his "beast mode hand" with affection. Stroking it, petting it... even brushing its teeth! Sometimes when Megatron's talking and plotting, you can see his beast hand looking up at him and nodding... his dragon head hand would often watch monitors if his robot head was distracted.

That I agree with too. Though I'll admit when I was younger I didn't care much for the more adult Cheetor and was missing the more carefree Cheetor from Beast Wars. But now that I look at it I can see that Cheetor got some good developed and had really matured. Heck, I remember talking to a guy I know IRL about BM, and he said that he think BM Cheetor is how G1 Rodimus should have been. Though a friend I talked ot about BM on another website said that she disagreed with that way Cheetor's develop went in BM. Mostly because she felt that considering Cheetor didn't become completely solemn over the events of BW, she doubted that what was happening in BM would do same. Again another subject I think is debatable.

I think Cheetor was a realist. He accepted the fact that they lost the Beast Wars, but got over it and moved on because there was a more pressing concern at hand - i.e. the war with the Vehicons and the liberation of Cybertron. There would be time to lament about the Beast Wars later. And this was Optimus Primal's failing... as a military commander you can't allow yourself to become emotionally compromised. In Beast Wars there was a moment where Primal felt overwhelmed shortly after Tigerhawk's demise, but after a brief period of venting, he got over it and soldiered on.

I agree with what that person said about Cheetor being what Rodimus Prime should have been -- Rodimus Prime spent a good portion of G1 just lamenting about the loss of Optimus Prime (which was his fault no less!) and about how he would never be as good a leader blah blah blah... get over it man... yes you have big shoes to fill, but you also have a big job to do. Get on with it!

Oh he's a condor in BM. I always though he was vulture. ^^;

And if you look at the toy he looks like a griffin. Ambiguity'd!! :p

[JazZeke]

Regarding as to whether or not the animation in BM was "better" or not, it did at least have shadows. However the animators stopped trying to be as realistic as possible like they did in Beast Wars and went for a deliberate "stylism." Compare the flames or electricity in BW compared to BM. BM took a step away from realism, imparting a deliberate sense of style to the look of the show. It's the same thing as Animated's more stylistic approach compared to the painfully-trying-to-be-realistic-but-only-looking-lifeless-and-stiff approach of Energon.

[GoktimusPrime]

We don't actually know the exact composition of Cybertron's atmosphere... it's possible that combustion may look different than on Earth.
Okay, I'm clutching at straws here. :p Considering that in G1 - on multiple occasions we saw humans breathing on Cybertron, it's obvious that their atmosphere is very similar (if not identical) to that of Earth's (which also supports the notion that Cybertron originallly harboured organic life)

[Alak]

Regarding as to whether or not the animation in BM was "better" or not, it did at least have shadows. However the animators stopped trying to be as realistic as possible like they did in Beast Wars and went for a deliberate "stylism." Compare the flames or electricity in BW compared to BM. BM took a step away from realism, imparting a deliberate sense of style to the look of the show. It's the same thing as Animated's more stylistic approach compared to the painfully-trying-to-be-realistic-but-only-looking-lifeless-and-stiff approach of Energon.

Agreed 100%.



Come to think of it, the only reason why I really finished watching Beast Machines (aside from fanboyism) was Cheetor. At the time, I was pretty young and kid-appeal characters stood out to me the most so he was my favorite Beast Wars character. I enjoyed his growth and he seemed to be the only character to have any strand of continuity with his BW role. Legs still remind me of grasshoppers and his sudden proficiency with melee weapons continue to amaze me (maybe Dinobot gave him lessons?). Still, I loved his character and how he provided a foil to the new Optimus Primal.

[NaitoKage]

Ug.. I remember the days on the internet when Beastmachines was on the air.. "Bob Skirr this is all you're fault!" and so on.. It got pretty bad, and honestly I can understand how the fans felt because alot of things were just.. stupid. The only redeeming quality from that show for me was the final episode battle between Megatron in Optimal Optimus's body and Primal..

Animation wise it was okay, but for some reason they had pudding like explosions. I mean some things just.. seemed off.

Canon wise lets see.. Key to Vector Sigma and the Oracle made no sense what so ever, specially since BW was set in comic canon and those were G1 tv canon, though admittedly they had all new writers as stated above, so they just did whatever they wanted.

Now lets never speak of this again and just use the Japanese Beastwars Canon to replace the events of Beast machines. (BW II is set in the future of post apocalyptic earth and BW Neo is set just a little after.)

[GoktimusPrime]

Bob Skir unfairly copped a lot of criticism. He was the show's editor, not the writers. Yes, he needs to accept part of the blame... but not all of it. And worse of all, he received a lot of DEATH THREATS from fans too. That's stupid. Just because someone don't like a cartoon does NOT ever excuse someone from threatening the editor and his family. Not to mention the multitude, "BOB SKIR KILLED MY CHILDHOOD!" Oh well, nowadays everyone's throwing the same insults and threats at Michael Bay (though Bay seems more thick-skinned about it).

Btw, Japanese Beast Wars occurs BEFORE the events of Beast Machines, not during it. The events of Beast Wars II occurs "concurrently" (relatively speaking) to the events of BW Season 1. For example, "Lio Convoy in Imminent Danger" occurs at the "same time" as "Chain of Command." Because when Optimus Primal was abducted by the Vok, he was transported to the planet Gaea via the Teleport Gate where he assisted Lio Convoy and his Maximals in defeating Majin Zarak before returning to pre-historic Earth. Beast Wars Neo would occur around the "same time" as BW Seasons 2-3.

Megatron returns to Cybertron and unleashes his virus AFTER the events of Beast Wars Neo. And this would make sense too, because toward the end of Beast Wars Neo Unicron totally wipes out all of Cybertron's defences including the Maximal Fleet. It's possible that if Megatron returned to Cybertron shortly after the battle with Unicron, then Cybertron's defences would still be relatively weakened, making it easier for his Vehicons to conquer the entire planet in one fell swoop.

Remember that the Japanese series were intended to be an extension of the Canadian series, not an alternate reality. Much like the UK G1 comics were intentionally written to be an extension of the US G1 comics.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

You guys go waaay too in depth with this stuff. I'm just going to share my opinion.

What I liked about BM:
•The animation
•The music
•Same voice actors
•Noble/Savage (looked cool and could've been a really neat concept)
•Botanica (from inanimate objects to vehicles to cities to dinosaurs and animals, why not introduce the possibility of a plant beast mode? Kind of liked that idea)
•The darkness of the show. It wasn't your typical happy-go-lucky kids cartoon.

What I disliked:
•All of the characters were turned inside out with their personalities and functions
•Megatron's restrictions with his body
•No more "yessss" and "nooo"
•Character designs - If I liked the beast mode, I probably disliked the robot mode and vice versa (for example, Rattrap's beast mode was cool, but I didn't like his robot mode at all, and Primal's robot mode was okay but his beast mode scared me, and Cheetor's beast mode was cool, but his robot mode was odd, etc.)
•The Tankorr/Rhinox idea

I kind of found that I started liking the original characters more than the BW originals, and that made me sad. Jetstorm was probably my favorite because of his attitude. Imagine how disappointed I was when he turned into Silverbolt. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 'Bolt was fine and all in BW, but don't replace Jetstorm with him! Write the bird-dog into the show some other way!

[NaitoKage]

I will agree that Bob skir got too much crap for Beastmachines. Hell, BW used to be said to "kill people's childhoods".

However considering the nature of Beastwars is set in the past.. and you're arguing about BW II and BW Neo which are set in the future that the Axalon came from, that still could be considered afterwards even though yes they ran at the same time. Ug. This is going to get into Back to the future time theories. Lets not go further.

And no, the thing with Megatron doesn't make sense. How did he get off being tied to a shuttle like a mounted deer on a redneck's truck to cybertron, AND have enough time to invent a virus that effects the entire planet? It's the most goofy plot device that series had, something a 9 year old fanfiction writer would do.

as for Michael Bay.. the guy is probably deaf from all the explosions in his films and reading fan anything would be far too mature for his tastes.


Heh, well the Vehlicons were opposites of their original personalities. Tankorr was dumb or played dumb until he became evil Rhinox.. which honestly.. I kinda agreed with Rhinox.. it almost makes me question who the REAL villian is in that series considering the heroes outcome is so..horrible. Thrust was the kinda guy Waspinator wished he was, and Jetstorm was the kinda guy Silverbolt wishes he'd never be.

[WorpeX]

Why couldn't Thrust have been Silverbolt? Woulda made a lot more sense in the storyline AND it wouldn't have killed off the most popular character in the series.

Also, I agree with liking the idea behind Botanica, but her robot form was a disaster. (her voice actor has a really sexy accent though. mmm)