Chromia or Elita One?

[Night-Hunter]

This is what happends when i'm left to my own devices what ever that means. But i've started re-uploading my fics on Fanfiction.net and an idea came to me, but i need help. Should I have Chromia or Elita One show up in my next fic?

[Blazemane]

To do what?

[Night-Hunter]

To do what?

Well, in my fics. My Transformers OC Nightfall is Ironhide's bond mate and if Chromia showed up, Ironhide would have to choose between Nightfall and Chromia. Its the same for Optimus and my other OC Flare.

[JazZeke]

To do what?

Well, in my fics. My Transformers OC Nightfall is Ironhide's bond mate and if Chromia showed up, Ironhide would have to choose between Nightfall and Chromia. Its the same for Optimus and my other OC Flare.

*groans*

[Night-Hunter]

*groans*

What is your problem? Do my idea's offend you in some way? Its called Fanfiction JazZeke, it opens many possibilities. And right now i can't deside on Chromia or Elita One.

[JazZeke]

*groans*

What is your problem? Do my idea's offend you in some way? Its called Fanfiction JazZeke, it opens many possibilities. And right now i can't deside on Chromia or Elita One.

I don't find them offensive. I find them unoriginal, and non sequitor to boot.

There've been more OCs paired up with those characters than it possible to count. They're called Mary Sues. It gets worse when you wedge them into pairings with characters who are already paired up and would never cheat on their "spouses". To accomplish this, you're making the characters behave in a way that doesn't fall within the boundaries of their personalities, thus showing you don't understand the characters in the first place.

You can write whatever you want, but if you want to write good fanfiction, you need to capture the essence of the canon and stick with that. A franchise has fans because they like the canon. If you deviate from canon - that Optimus is a wholesome character that stands up for everything right and true, and he has a girlfriend/mate, who he would logically never cheat on - then you alienate fans, not bring them in. What makes you think that your reinterpretation of things would be any more entertaining than the canon? If you want to write about romance, why not just do a story about Optimus and Elita?

[Night-Hunter]

Personally i see mary sues as characters who can't defend themselves and need a man to protect them. Well Flare and Nightfall are not like that. They can handle themselves and if you would let explain what i had planned for the fic... you know what? Never mind, this is the last time i ask for help when it comes to Transformers fanfics. Because all you do JazZeke is shoot me and my ideas out of the freaking sky.

[JazZeke]

Personally i see mary sues as characters who can't defend themselves and need a man to protect them. Well Flare and Nightfall are not like that. They can handle themselves and if you would let explain what i had planned for the fic...

For a writer I'm constantly amazed by your lack of genre-savviness. Actually, no, that's a Damsel in Distress. Mary Sues are over-idealized characters that (most of the time) exist to be romantically paired with a canon character. Seriously, you need to do a lot more research.

you know what? Never mind, this is the last time i ask for help when it comes to Transformers fanfics. Because all you do JazZeke is shoot me and my ideas out of the freaking sky.

Well, you asked for my help at first, remember? I guess what you really wanted was mindless praise, but I don't do that.

[Night-Hunter]

For a writer I'm constantly amazed by your lack of genre-savviness. Actually, no, that's a Damsel in Distress. Mary Sues are over-idealized characters that (most of the time) exist to be romantically paired with a canon character. Seriously, you need to do a lot more research.

Yeah, i do need to do i lot more research i can admit that and i never even heard the term mary sue until a few months ago. I lack genre-savviness yes, but i'm only good with my own characters and i'm trying to get the canons to where they sound like the should.

Well, you asked for my help at first, remember? I guess what you really wanted was mindless praise, but I don't do that.

Yes i asked for your help and no i didn't want mindless praise. I just wanted some one to help me with my writing I don't even know why i asked in the first place. I'm tired of trying to be some one i'm not, i just don't care any more. Oh and by way about that fic that i was talking about i was going to try for a canon/canon romance that was why i asked in the frist place.

[Nurann]

Night Hunter, Jazzeke WAS trying to help you. It may or may not have been phrased in the gentlest way, however, part of being a mature, skilled writer is to take what you can from all kinds of criticism and run with it. He made some good points. Consider taking some time to think about what he said and how it may prove useful to you; after all, he took time out of his day to reply to you. He didn't have to. He could have just passed on by or fed you to the trolls. There really is no need to get defensive and snarky with him for trying to help you improve.

Jazzeke, thank you for stopping to help Night Hunter, but you're welcome to jump straight to the point next time rather than confuse our younger members with one-word friendly jibes they may not understand the intent of.

Please remember to keep the thread civil you two. Preferably before any real fighting starts. It's just not fun for anyone when that happens.

Thank you.

[JazZeke]

Right Nurann, I'll try to be less snarky next time.

In my defense, I'm part Mexican, German and a little Irish. I don't have blood in my veins so much as I have concentrated liquid rage.

[SkyxDB]

Hmm, well when it comes to whole canon/OC thing, I think if you're gonna pair an OC with canon make sure that canon is single. Because I have to agree that neither Optimus or Ironhide would ever cheat oh their girls. But of course if you do a canon/OC pair it's a good idea to try keep the canon in character as possible. It really helps to study the canon and analysis the character based off what you observe in canon. Also make sure the the OC would be compatible in some way. If they don't seem to be compatible, then either ditch idea or have them break up. I'll admit though I am considering having one of my canon/OC pairs break up. Also for the OC, makes they get good development and that there's more to them then their love interest. Also it's a good idea to make sure that OC doesn't hog all the spotlight. Because believe or not it is possible to pair an OC with a canon with out the OC being a Mary-Sue. I try my best to avoid the Mary-Sue, and granted I don't really consider my self the best writer, but try the best I can to make the story a decent a read and try my best to develop the characters, but I know I don't always get it right. So sometimes it's a good idea to be willing to go back and make changes as needed.

[Blazemane]

Personally i see mary sues as characters who can't defend themselves and need a man to protect them. Well Flare and Nightfall are not like that. They can handle themselves and if you would let explain what i had planned for the fic...

Hey, Night Hunter,

I've heard you vehemently deny that your characters are o.c.'s before, so I know what your opinion is on this. And to be honest, I haven't read enough of your work to make a very supportable opinion on whether or not your characters are Mary Sues, but I figured I should say something.

A Mary Sue is characterized by a lot of different features, but generally anything that will make a reader say "yeah, right," has become a Mary Sue to that specific reader. With that point in mind, the ability of your characters to defend themselves is a positive trait. If, then, they have an abundance of other positive features, their ability to defend themselves can actually add to a reader's annoyance with the character.

Obviously, not every character who can fight is a Mary Sue. And obviously (as you have pointed out yourself) there are lots of characters out there who can't fight and are still Mary Sues.

What I'm getting at is that, in the end, the fact that your characters can fight doesn't automatically give them a free pass out of Mary Sue-dom.

With all due respect to your own perceptions, it's worth any author's effort to give their characters a second look over.

Do your characters fall in love with canon characters and get that love returned to them (as Sky pointed out- this is not necessarily a condemning trait)?
Do they often express wiser things than the characters around them/often make decisions which, in the end, prove to be the best possible decisions (also fine in and of itself)?
Can they wreck most opponents they come across (fine in and of itself)?
Do they have abilities (or curses) which are, for the most part, unique to them (How dare you! ...No, I'm just kidding, this is also fine in and of itself. I'm seeing a pattern)?
Do the specific talents of canon characters seem to fall prey at times to the necessities of the plot (Can Po somehow not pick his extremely durable self off the ground after going a few rounds with a crocodile? Oh wait- here comes Tisna- warrior panda! Crocodile doesn't stand a chance.)?

Are a collection of these happening at the same time? That's where the problem lies for Mary Sues. There is not any definable rule for how many of these combined traits a character can have before becoming annoying to the reader, which is part of what makes the Mary Sue debate so heated- it really is in the eye of the beholder. And that's the reason most authors don't recognize if they have Mary Sues- obviously if the character annoyed the author while he or she was writing the story, they wouldn't have written it that way.

And I know I've put a lot of words in this comment, but there's something else to think about- do you care about whether or not your character is a Mary Sue? A lot of authors use the defense for their characters that fan fiction is supposed to be free to the imagination of the author. There is actually very little to say against this line of reasoning- if the author truly means to write for the gratification of their own imagination, and only that. An author should be happy with what they write, and if, indeed, modifying their characters to match the perceived desires of the reading public would only make them unhappy, then it why should they want to change their characters and be unhappy?

But, as I said, that only works if you're truly writing the work for yourself, and you don't care what anyone else thinks. If, however, your intention is to write a story others can enjoy (even if only so they can give you feedback- I will readily admit that I put a lot of stock into what people think of what I write), then it is wise to write characters that won't turn your audience away. I think the term "Mary Sue" has become rather stigmatized- to the point where the goal of writing a good character is to avoid writing "that dreaded Mary Sue- some conceptual banner raised by nosy people who take writing far too seriously."

But the concept of avoiding Mary Sues, when it comes down it, is really just about writing characters your readers can become enjoyably engaged with. So if someone comes to you and says your character is a Mary Sue, don't be frustrated by the label- look to what the label is trying to tell you.

[Night-Hunter]

*Sigh* I'm not going to answer that. And yes i have defended my OC's in the past and the next time some one labels on of my OC's as a Mary Sue i'll try not to get defensive and see what i can do so that they are not so called Mary Sue's.

[Alak]

*Sigh* I'm not going to answer that. And yes i have defended my OC's in the past and the next time some one labels on of my OC's as a Mary Sue i'll try not to get defensive and see what i can do so that they are not so called Mary Sue's.

Ok, I was hoping to maintain lurker status... until I read this post. You keep saying that you're looking to improve. You keep saying that you'll try not to get too defensive over your OCs. You keep saying that you're open to criticism. Yet, you refuse to answer a simple fragment of a Mary Sue survey??? NH, yours actions dictate what you believe and how you feel, not what you write around here. Your constant refusal to cooperate with the very people you seek help from is why you keep facing so much resistance. We tell you that something doesn't work, you thank us for the input, and completely throw the feedback out the window. It's ok because we're not mad, but then you go ahead and repeat this several more times. Everyone in this thread is willing to give their assistance to help you make a story that won't get shredded by trolls. If you're getting hurt over what your friends are saying, just imagine how much worse it's going to get once you put this on DeviantArt or that fanfiction website. It won't kill you if you take the Mary Sue test (not that's it's perfect by any means). Long story short: Don't ask for help if you're just going to toss it aside. It only offends your allies and alienates them.

Now, back to the main question: Chromia or Elita-1? I say neither. Optimus Prime and Ironhide are highly respectable characters who epitomize honesty, loyalty, and true faith in goodness. Some hot new femme bot who likes to strut her stuff and is absurdly effective in combat isn't going to make these two fall head over heals for her. Optimus would give her a promotion and Ironhide would give her a pat on the back. Did you watch the Generation 1 cartoons? Optimus Prime and Ironhide were on Earth while Elita-1 and Chromia were stuck on Cybertron, and this split lasted for over 4 million years. When they reunited, they still showed signs of love and affection for each other. So, ask yourself this: if these guys can maintain a 4 million year long distance relationship with their gals without any contact whatsoever, what hope does your OC have in wedging herself in between? This fiction of yours is going to end up with unrequited love.