The Intergalactic Highway

Edit: I forgot to mention this at first. If you want to debate, ask Sapphire. Right now the debators are Velociberg, Lady Ocelet, Wistwin and myself.

We see that in Beast Wars, the maximals on Earth are good, while the Predacons on Earth are bad. We also learn however, that on Cybertron, the maximals have been a bit more than unfair to the predacons, but also that most of the predacons want a rebellion either quickly or slowly.

So my question: Does Predacon necessarily dictate a desire for power/malice, and does Maximal necessarily dictate a desire for peace/justice?

I'm not sure if maximals are the true Intergalactic Peace & Justice model, but at least they speak for some ideas that Predacons may not consider. For instance that line "Freedom is the right of every Sentient Being" is a demonstration that maximals are not so short sighted as predacons. Who really don't care where they have to stand and who they have to destroy in order to gain control of the situation.

And even though I like more the Predacon Faction I have to say that what is a certain setback is that they show themselves Selfish, and Authoritary. And that is why they tend to look evil in comparison to Maximals.

Hey there. I actually find your opinion well thought out and said. But I have to say this, and I don't mean any offense by it.

This is for the Bwint Newsletter. Sapphire primarily wants those signed on for debate to debate. Now I clearly did not state that at first, so of course you had no way of knowing, and it is in fact my fault for not specifying in the first post. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you ask Sapphire, she'd be more than glad to let you debate on this. But right now we have four people signed on:

Lady Ocelet, Velociberg, Wiswin and myself.

But, on a different note- welcome back! Where've you been?

Unvereitletmann wrote:I'm not sure if maximals are the true Intergalactic Peace & Justice model, but at least they speak for some ideas that Predacons may not consider. For instance that line "Freedom is the right of every Sentient Being" is a demonstration that maximals are not so short sighted as predacons.

Good point, except that's not a Maximal philosophy so to speak. That's an Autobot one. Most notably, that was Optimus Primal carrying Optimus Prime's spark, and being heavily influenced by the Matrix of Leadership.

Who really don't care where they have to stand and who they have to destroy in order to gain control of the situation.

This is true.

And even though I like more the Predacon Faction I have to say that what is a certain setback is that they show themselves Selfish, and Authoritary. And that is why they tend to look evil in comparison to Maximals.

In comparison to the Maximals under Optimus you mean. Optimus wasn't the one who ordered the Protoform X project to start, using freaking Starscream's spark, of ALL Transformers, to try and create the ultimate undying warrior. If we're talking about just the crew of the two ships, then yes, the Predacons are "evil" and the Maximals are "good". Its Cybertron as a whole where the line becomes fuzzy. Megatron cites that the Predacons are slaves under the Maximals, thanks to the Decepticons losing to the Autobots. Now, this may be an overexaggeration, or propaganda, but projects like Protoform X seem to indicate, at least to me, that the Maximals aren't quite as nice and shiny as their Autobot ancestors.

P.S.

Though being of Decepticon descent, the Predacons would naturally be more "evil" than the Maxmials.

Hey I'm a debater now! WooHoo


Predacons crave many things and power is one of them. They also crave war because as we can see from the Maximals point of view Maximals wanted peace between the two races but Predacons wanted to fight.

In the words of Megatron: "An enemy which appears to be peaceful may in fact be merely, binding its time!"

They don't want peace but destruction.

This sums up what the Predacons represent. They love to fight not just for conquest of Cybertron but for anything they see is of value. Look how they treat the human race. Because of our weak forms, they think we are only useful as slaves, raw materials, or sadistic entertainment. If you are not powerful, you are worthless. That's what they feel.

They are prideful, selfish, manipulative, and full of apathy.



Now, the Maximals are totally opposite but sometimes they do things that are questionable at times.

They do care for other races like from the famous words of Optimus Prime.

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Instead of conquering, they get to know the culture of different worlds by exploring not dictating. That's peace

"Well, you wanted exploration. Now here we are in an unknown planet."

Now justice is a little touchy sometimes. It depends on your point of view but I do believe that the Maximals try to give justice where it is due. They are not perfect as we can see but they do try to do the right thing. They are not killers like the Predacons.

Except for Depth Charge, no Maximal in the Beast Wars has killed a Predacon while Predacons literally killed Dinobot. Megatron blew up Optimus and Taranutlas killed Blackarachnia until she came back to life.


Now sometimes their justice is not perfect like putting out Transmutate or making an immortal soldier.


In my opinion, Maximals are caring and tehy just want to be free from battle and just relax. Well, this is the only Maximals we see in Beast Wars. The ones on Cybertron like the Maximal Elders act more like politicans than peace keepers. (My opinion only)



THis is my first debate, so sorry if it's not that good.

una wrote:Now justice is a little touchy sometimes. It depends on your point of view but I do believe that the Maximals try to give justice where it is due. They are not perfect as we can see but they do try to do the right thing. They are not killers like the Predacons.

Except for Depth Charge, no Maximal in the Beast Wars has killed a Predacon while Predacons literally killed Dinobot. Megatron blew up Optimus and Taranutlas killed Blackarachnia until she came back to life.

You mean no Maximal other than Depth Charge has successfully killed a Predacon. Though honestly, with all the pain Dinobot was dishing out in Code of Hero, I'm amazed he didn't take some Predacons down with him.

But anyway.

If memory serves, Silverbolt was out for blood when Tarantulas killed BA. Would've worked if Rampage wasn't lurking nearby.

And let's not forget when Optimus tried destroying (urged on by Dinobot, true, but he still went through with it) every Predacon from S1 when he thought Cheetor was killed.

THis is my first debate, so sorry if it's not that good.

Nahhhh, you're doin' great!

And because I forgot to answer it...

So my question: Does Predacon necessarily dictate a desire for power/malice, and does Maximal necessarily dictate a desire for peace/justice?

Generally, yes. Though there are exceptions (Dinobot and Quickstrike for instance) this is true most of the time.

VelociBerg wrote:

una wrote:Now justice is a little touchy sometimes. It depends on your point of view but I do believe that the Maximals try to give justice where it is due. They are not perfect as we can see but they do try to do the right thing. They are not killers like the Predacons.

Except for Depth Charge, no Maximal in the Beast Wars has killed a Predacon while Predacons literally killed Dinobot. Megatron blew up Optimus and Taranutlas killed Blackarachnia until she came back to life.

You mean no Maximal other than Depth Charge has successfully killed a Predacon. Though honestly, with all the pain Dinobot was dishing out in Code of Hero, I'm amazed he didn't take some Predacons down with him.

But anyway.

If memory serves, Silverbolt was out for blood when Tarantulas killed BA. Would've worked if Rampage wasn't lurking nearby.

And let's not forget when Optimus tried destroying (urged on by Dinobot, true, but he still went through with it) every Predacon from S1 when he thought Cheetor was killed.

"Wait, you're sure this countdown will give the Predacons time to flee their base."


I thought that was his reason even though he was pretty ticked when he thought Megatron killed Cheetor.

Successfully? Yes that's what I mean! None of the Maximals successfully killed a Predacon.

True enough, BUT, I think that he let his feelings get in the way, and he didn't consider that he was taking advice from a bloodthirsty Dinobot, who, lets face it, wanted nothing more than to blow Megatron and his happy little band--eager to start another GLORIOUS Predacon day--to scrap.

Ok, my opinion is that the Predacons are generally malicious, for reasons mainly already expressed by others.

As for Maximals, I think nearly all are good, but everybot makes mistakes.

Eep! I've only returned to the forums now, so I only get to answer this now. >.>

Ah, one of my favorite topics.

((LONG post, sorry))

Predacons crave many things and power is one of them. They also crave war because as we can see from the Maximals point of view Maximals wanted peace between the two races but Predacons wanted to fight.

They don't want peace but destruction.

Now why would that be? Most statements point to the idea that Predacons are looked down upon by Maximals because they are descended from the Decepticons. It's possible that Predacons act that way because they are expected to. Besides, the only Predacons we ever did get to see were all somehow related to Megatron. Not so flattering towards their faction.

And do any of you honestly believe that all Predacons are destructive? I mean, what about those back on Cybertron?

The term "Predacon" seems to act as a stereotype, stemming from the more violent root, the Decepticon.

In the words of Megatron: "An enemy which appears to be peaceful may in fact be merely biding its time!"

It's called deception, quite a common tactic in conflict (not necessarily war or violence).


Let's go back in time. Before there were wars and the Decepticons and the Autobots, there was only the Transformer. It was only when the first Megatron rose to power that the Decepticons became a faction and the same for the Autobots. In most fictions, it is suggested that the denizens of Cybertron had to choose between the two factions. Those who did not became the Empties/Neutrals during the war. The more destructive and "I get what I want" bots became Decepticons and the protective and peaceful bots became Autobots.

((*sigh* My brain is starting to hurt))

Alright, present time. The Decepticons lost. They were placed as secondary citizens of Cybertron while the Autobots went off and partied.

So then Autobots = Maximals and Decepticons = Predacons. No third faction, it seems. So where did the Neutrals go? Some of them may have joined the Maximals, others the Predacons. Whichever appeals to them. But the Neutrals were not displayed as destructive, so they'd probably make bad Predacons.

Yeah, right.

Alright, after going through all that, my point is here: the Maximals have a finer lifestyle than the Predacons. They are most likely given access to things that make life better, though they are expected to follow all laws. The Predacons however, have a more free way of life, probably violating a few laws every once in a while, all for the sake of enjoyment or some other good thing.

So, basically, whatever floats their boats. Some Predacons might even be bots of morals.

On the note of the Maximal Elders: They ARE politicians. And lower officials could be corrupt for all we know.

Ah...I could go on and on about the Predacons. So I might as well give a little credit to the Maximals.

Autobots and Maximals = Epitome of Goodness and Perfect Little Angels? Well, like you all said, no one is perfect. Omicron is a fine example of that. Depth Charge too, come to think of it. He's got quite the vision of justice. But then, as Una said, justice depends upon the person.

On Maximal peace...peace is like any other abstract noun, the meaning depends on the persons. I mean, IDW's G1 Megatron called desolation peace. How's that for a meaning?

Grah...I'm getting no where. And this post is long enough without me adding more stuff. Post end.

PS. Welcome to the debate team, Una!