Who is more powerful?

[VelociBerg]

(I assume we're just going by BW again)

Definitely Tarantulas. RT assuredly has many moments, but none can come up with the ultimate, sneaky, crafty plan like Tarantulas. He had the Nemesis ready to launch against both Maximal and Predacon, developed a means of controlling Optimal Optimus Primal through some weird exoskeleton device, and was able to successfully subdue Tigerhawk--who had just trounced both Megatron and Optimus. I could go on for quite a long time. He re-programs stasis pods to create servants loyal to him (that was his intention at least), has his own base of operations, has disabled both bases (Axalon and Darkside) simultaneously, etc.

Rattrap on the other hand, is more resourceful. Whereas Tarantulas is generally about long-term goals, Rattrap is the guy you want on your side when there's lots of pressure and you need to blow something up, covertly. As good as he is, he just doesn't have the access, resources and scientific mind that Tarantulas does.

[SilverfromOZ]

Granted that Tarantulas is probably the sneakiest little critter on the planet he quite deserves this title. However I'm just bringing up the hypothetical point of what if Rattrap was say... less apathetic and more driven?

[VelociBerg]

There'd still be the same results, they'd just increase in frequency. Throw in some hacking here and there, etc. Rattrap couldn't bring the Nemesis back from the grave, for instance. He's just not that sinister. If he were more driven RT would undoubtedly cause a lot more havoc for the Predacons, which in turn would make the Predacons kick it up a notch.

Actually...making Rattrap more driven is just like adding another Rhinox if you think about it.

[SilverfromOZ]

I've always seen Rattrap as the Bond (or maybe Austin Powers would be more fitting) of the BW universe. The infiltration and sabotage skills are well up there. Its interesting because I have always had the theory that intelligence is somewhat different to smarts. You see it all the time, hugely intelligent people who can't perform basic operations or are nowhere near as savvy as the smart people. Tarantulas is hugely intelligent and manipulative whereas RT is savvy (Jack Sparrow if you will). Tarantulas may be able to set up all the chess pieces however its someone like RT who will land on their feet once the board has been thrown across the room and the pieces are scattered around the place.

[VelociBerg]

Tarantulas has proven that he can also land on his feet once the board is knocked over. Assembling himself thanks to his mini-army of spiderbots when Ravage's ship blew up for example. (What a backup plan.) Not trying to dis' RT, I'm just sayin'...

[SilverfromOZ]

True.. I had forgotten about the drones. "A wise tyrant always has a backup plan." Alright that was a pretty cut and dry discussion. I figured Tarantulas would be on top I just wanted to see if anyone had a few other ideas about it. We'll give then a shot. In the meantime how about a bigger battle.

5. Rampage vs Depth Charge.

[VelociBerg]

Huh. That was over sooner than I thought it'd be. Moving on...

Rampage. Though Depth Charge definitely has the arsenal to take Rampage on, you just can't beat near-immortality. It took DC thrusting a blade of pure, raw energon into Rampage's Spark for him to die. Whereas DC needs to go into a CR Chamber to heal up, Rampage does it then and there, depending on the extent of the injury of course. And unlike Tarantulas, he's not that easy to squash--as shown in Transmutate. (Though I suspect being underwater prevents him from doing so.)

Rampage is like a murderous version of the Energizer bunny. He won't stop. Not to mention Colony Omicron. Rampage wiped out the entire colony. Clearly, either DC was otherwise occupied--or Rampage let him live for some twisted reason.

[SilverfromOZ]

Well RT vs Tarry is still open so people can continue the arguement however I didn't want to take over the thread and fill it with all my crazy opinions

Nice point about Omicron. Has anyone written a fanfic about that?

"They say he leaves no survivors."

"Who is left to tell the stories then?"

[EverBlue]

Without a doubt, Tarantulas is the much craftier and resourceful of the two. But I have a feeling that when it comes down to a battle between the two one on one, Rattrap's going to come out the winner(unless of course Tarantulas has gained otherworldly Vok powers or has an extremely powerful weapon on his side). Rattrap has much more street smarts and Tarantulas is like a snake oil salesman who's cunning and manipulative, but would never come out alive of a street confrontation(Rattrap would probably be doing the mugging). I'll break it down:

Tarantulas(w/ prep time) vs. Rattrap(w/o prep time)

Winner: Tarantulas

Tarantulas(w/o prep time) vs. Rattrap(w/ prep time)

Winner: Rattrap

Tarantulas(w/ prep time) vs. Rattrap(w/ prep time)

Winner: Rattrap(unless Tarantulas has some ultra-powerful trump card up his sleeve, Rattrap wins this one)

Tarantulas(w/o prep time) vs. Rattrap(w/o prep time)

Winner: Rattrap. He can just improvise. Just look at what he did in "The Web" with Tarantulas.

Overall, I'd say Rattrap would win the majority of encounters. Tarantulas is a lot more cunning and resourceful but without any secret weapons or trump cards, Rattrap would squash him. Basically, Tarantulas wins in the cunning and intelligence department while Rattrap wins in the fighting and resourcefulness department.


And as for Depth Charge vs. Rampage, I'm pretty certain Rampage would win this. Depth Charge kicks ass but there's no way you can beat a near-immortal being unless you're near-immortal yourself or you just so happen to be immortal(which is highly unlikely). This guy shrugs off serious, life-threatening injuries like they're nothing. He's been bombarded with missiles, laser blasts, and machinegun fire and gets thrown off a cliff but still has enough stamina to leap back up like nothing's wrong. He took four direct shots from Inferno's gun without suffering any major injuries in Code of Hero. His missiles can destroy entire mountains plus he can even repair himself in a matter of seconds after being impaled. He even LET Depth Charge kill him in his final moments.

He's got the near-immortality of Ra's al Ghul, the healing factor of Wolverine, the strength of the Juggernaut, and the sadistic charisma of Hannibal Lecter. That, my friends, is a guaranteed success for pretty much every opponent you go up against, outside of immortal god-like characters with cosmic powers that can bend reality itself(Unicron, the Vok, Tigerhawk, etc.).

[SilverfromOZ]

OK Then lets take it up a notch considering that we are talking about near-immortals.

6. Transmetal 2 Dinobot vs Rampage

(Please note the other discussions can still continue as well, I just realised this as an obvious challenge and thought I'd add it before I forgot).

[VelociBerg]

TM2 Dinobot. All he has to do is squeeze Rampage's spark and Rampage is on the floor thrashing around in pain. We know it must be pain given a new definition if Rampage of all bots is crying in pain. Remember, one of Dinobot's functions is to keep Rampage in check.

I imagine Dinobot could continue pressure while systematically cutting limbs off with his optical laser, especially since it doesn't even hurt him. Not to mention that Dinobot is a fighting machine when he's a Maximal or Predacon, standard or TM2--like how he went Mortal Kombat on Depth Charge with Liu Kang's bicycle kick.

Rampage, on the other hand, assuredly has significantly more firepower than any other transformer except Tigerhawk. But this all comes back to Dinobot squeezing the spark. With pain like that, pain that can't be healed with his healing ability, pain that his mighty armor can't stop, even Rampage must fall.

[SilverfromOZ]

OK then lets give Rampage a fighting chance. Dinobot snaps into his honourable mode and dispenses with his obvious advantage. One on one winner takes all. What happens?

[VelociBerg]

Except Dinobot always exploits his advantages.

He didn't bother with honorifics in battle during Code of Hero, he just picked the fastest way to eliminate the Predacons.

Seriously, who was the one always yelling at Optimus:
"Strike now! While the advantage is ours! yadayadayada Megatron has lost two, we have lost only one! yadayadayada We are at WAR Optimus! Blablablah."

But I'll play along.

I still say TM2 Dinobot. For one, he's a step above Rampage in terms of technology, Rampage being only a transmetal. And from what I've seen, Dinobot, like his half-brother, doesn't seem to quit as long as he's conscious. Very few bots could take Rampage on single-handedly and I say TM2 Dinobot is one of them. And like Rampage, pain doesn't seem to bother him (spark squeezing aside)--if he even feels it at all. We've seen Dinobot take Optimal Optimus down with a single shot, and throw down with Depth Charge with minimal difficulty...in beast mode.

Now, if they just fried their logic circuits and decided to just stand there and shoot each other, then yes, Rampage would win. However, since any battle between the two will undoubtedly go hand-to-hand (Hey, it happens with DC all the time, why not TM2DB?) Rampage will lose some of the advantages he has over Dinobot.

I just can't see Rampage winning. Oh, it'll be a long fight. I'll guarantee you that. Neither one will have an easy time since we've decided to rule the spark issue out. But I say Dinobot will come out on top. Because if he's gone into honor mode, then that means he's also thinking like the Dinobot of old. The one who strategically took down the entire Predacon force, Rampage included. Superior metal and tactics will win the day.

[VelociBerg]

I apologize for this double post, just some points I want to readdress now that all of BW is available on YouTube for our viewing pleasure concerning Optimus v. Megatron.

As well as a few changes in thinking on my part--namely my scoreboard theory, since the original topic applied only to OOP and DMegs, rather than Optimus & Megatron as a whole, as well as changing my opinion that Optimus actually lost to Megatron in BM every time (except the end, read further to see)

I'm still with Megs, have no fear, I'm just providing better answers to some statements I inadequately answered previously.

Optimus kicked Megatron's butt while both were seemingly in peak condition in robot mode. It seems pretty basic to me. I guess by your logic, all fights in the show are just how the plot unfolds.

Dumbed down or not, Megatron still lost to Optimus under the best of conditions.

What I was trying to say in my earlier posts has at last been made clear to me. They suffer from the "bad guy syndrome". This can be best defined as:

The forces of good shall triumph, no matter what. Strength, intelligence, numbers, they just don't bear up under the accursed shining beacon of "good". One of the few examples of evil clearly winning, (that I have personally seen, perhaps there's more floating around out there) is The Empire Strikes Back. Even the name says "good" loses. Han Solo captured, Luke's hand chopped off--by his own father no less--and the Rebels fleeing and dying in terror at the start of the movie? Oh, and its also the best SW movie ever, hands down. Probably because Lucas didn't direct that one. But then "evil" lost it all in the finale (Lucas-directed) movie. Boo. Hiss.

Annnnnyway, back to BW.

Optimus would still defeat Megatron more times than not for all the strength, skill, and willpower that he's displayed many times(and trust me, I RARELY compliment Optimus characters this way in most TF cartoons). I mean, the statistics are squarely in favor of Optimus.

Ahh, they were in favor back when transmetals and above weren't around. But OOP and DMegs is a whole different story.

Heck, you said it yourself that the scoreboards showed it.

See above response.

Besides, if you've watched Beast Machines(which I think is a sub-par sequel but that's besides the point at hand), you'll notice that Megatron in his dragon/TMII/TM/Optimal form couldn't even beat a weaker techno-organic Optimus.

Nuh-uh. I have definite proof this time. BEHOLD the TRUTH at 2:09 to 2:16:

Optimus admits he can't win.

There you have it. Primal admits he can't beat Megatron, and tries to reformat him in a desperation tactic, ironically becoming like Megs himself in that moment--which blows the Techno-organic Optimus beating DMegs theory out of the water. Would the reformatting have defeated him? No. It was just to piss him off. It would've left him on the brink of death and the newly formatted Megs would end it then and there. When Tankor/Rhinox foiled that he (Optimus) activated a freakin' doomsday weapon.

Seriously, the guy got put down and locked in a chokehold.

If you watch the episode linked above, he breaks out of said chokehold.

You know what Megatron had to resort to at the end of the series just to have an edge over Optimus? He had to steal Optimus Primal's Optimal body to gain an edge and pound Primal around but even then, he still lost.

Now to prove why OOP is weaker than DMegs. Optimus has just admitted that he can't defeat DMegs, yet can now defeat Optimal Megs. Clearly, the Optimal form is thus weaker than the Dragon form. Granted, its powerful--but it doesn't compare.

Beast Machines has gotten a slightly more positive reception in recent times. Now, the newfound positive reception is still nowhere near universal amongst Beast Wars fans and I, myself, am most certainly not one of those people who have found a new yearning for Beast Machines... but believe it or not, people in their right minds do like Beast Machines. Scary, ain't it?

Indeed. After rewatching the first season I saw tremendous potential (hideous forms aside), and Jetstorm made the show decent, if not awesome when he showed up--until they got rid of him for emo-Silverbolt. I still don't get how he was able to transform into robot mode instantly though.

[Lyxwal]

Ok, lemmie try!

Optimus VS Megatron

Optimus is the warrior. Megatron has loads of power to dispense, but he is a mastermind. Megatron is a lot smarter then Optimus, and Optimus is a lot stronger. However, I do agree with the theory that with each upgrade, the difference cloased, until Megatron finally had the advantage.

I have a hunch that being smaller was better for megatron. When Optimus had Prime's spark, he had an abundance of energy. When he lost it, he still had a lot of power, but because he was so much bigger, he was a lot less effecient, and because of the war, he had to take limited amounts of rasions. The result being him not running at Optimal (Bad, unintentional pun) effectivness.

Megatron, having essentially been re-smelted by the lava, is smaller, denser, and probably had the same level of strength Optimus did, but didn't need as much energy, AND he still had Megatrons Spark. Beast Machines I haven't seen in years and don't remember, so I can't really say much on that, although if I had to guess, having one's conciousness spread across an entire planet can't be very good for one on one combat, even if the majority is in one spot.
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Silverbolt VS Quickstrike

Silverbolt!!! I am guessing that it might be something very similar to a brawler (QS) VS a Trained Warrior (SB), but that is just my guess.
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Tarantulas VS Rattrap

Rattrap is the better planner on the spot, but Tarantulas beats him hands down in long term goals. RT is the better fighter though, and even if Tarantulas put him into a near impossible situation, RT would find a way.
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Rampage VS Depth Charge

Depth charge is the better warrior without a doubt, and he has a lot more skill then Rampage is, and he is probably a lot faster then him. However, Rampage is stronger, near immortal, and has enough Firepower to litteraly level an entire colony. He wins, unless DC has a plan, but even then, the odds are against him.
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Rampage VS TM2 Dinobot

Without spark squeese, Rampage wins I think. I give you that with his healing factor, his speed and skill, and his raw power, Dinobot would put up a heck of a fight, and might even fight him to a stand still. But, Ramapge's healing factor is much greater, any wound he gets he will recover from very quickley. Dinobot would go a REALLY long time, but eventually, Rampage would get his shot off, and one shot from Rampage is all it usually takes.

Plus, Rampage is 'Brilliant' (Although we don't know how smart he is really) he could probably devise a way to win in the end.

Spark Squeese though, Dinobot wins, but it's not really a fight.