The Intergalactic Highway

Cont..

.. without boosters or an attachable jetpack, her flight in robot form isn't overly impressive fast. I can't see her getting up to speeds well above mach 1 in robot form, and quite frankly I can't see most G1s get those speeds in robot form either. So the thought of a speed 5 flyer being 5Xa faster than she is in S1 just doesn't make sense to me.

The speed of swimming isn't really too relevant right now, since aside from NKs characters, Orca and Ceci, we don't really have any swimmers. But next season most characters seem to be a flyer.

Swimming is too fast on that scale anyway since it's all boats. I say for swimming.. half what it says is your underwater speed. And since Glowstick uses hovering instead of "flying", I'll go with the boat speed for being in the air in his robot mode. He's not supposed to be a speed demon anyway, just have higher mobility. When season 2 kicks in, his transmetal feature will use the flight speed/hover speed.

Flight scale however should be fine for powered flight. Running scale I'm going to more say is for robot mode movements, while the "rolling" scale is animal land speeds or unpowered flight like gliding or flapping wings.

Oddly enough, the rulebook also includes beastwars characters including transmetals, and purposes to the bio organic shell for season 1s.

Edit:
Hmm.. Yeah, I like this system so far.. guess I'd tweak it in ways like this.. to provide advantages and disadvantages to the different forms of locomotion.


Speed score: Land Swimming Flying
1 25 mph 10 mph 150 mph
2 40 mph 25 mph 300 mph
3 60 mph 40 mph 500 mph
4 75 mph 60 mph M1/600 mph
5 90 mph 75 mph M2/1320 mph
6 100 mph 90 mph M3/1980 mph
7 120 mph 100 mph M4/2460 mph
8 150 mph 120 mph +M5/3300 mph
9 200 mph 150 mph M6/3960 mph
10 250 mph 200 mph M7/4620 mph

Types:

Land normal used for beast mode land speeds, as beast war types are machines, they don't need to be completely accurate with land animal speeds. This form of movement is well balanced for long range travel over normal terrain.

Land slow:Used by characters that slitter, crawl, or sneak. This form of travel is worse at traveling distances, but has the advantages of stealthier movement allowing the character to less likely be detected. Movement speed down to "swim speed" scale.

Swim speed: Used for vehicles or beast modes which skim over the water. Good for long range travel over water but provides no advantages or disadvantages. Bonus: Supercavitation bubble system/Hydrodynamics features:Characters using systems similar to these can use surface water speeds underwater by generating less friction via a specified system.

Underwater speed: Half swim speed, this is the speed used in beast mode by most underwater type characters.

Improvised swim: Most Cybertronians simply can't swim, it's a way of life. However, some while not suited for swimming, can still swim. Improvised swimming is used by normal types or some fusors as a means of swimming in their beast mode, default is 5 mph, however speeds of the real animal swimming can be used.

Hover: Characters that float over the ground either using a anti gravity system, grav lifts,jets,rockets or whatever use swim speed as their air speed. Hover is slower then normal flight, but has added advantage of increased accuracy and more precise mobility. Hover is often included with fliers using powered flight.

Powered flight: The king of travel, powered flight allows you to get somewhere as fast as possible using rockets, jets, propellers, or whatever. This form of mobility is the least stealthy of all movements in the game allowing the character to be detected by radar and heat signatures unless specified otherwise. This form of mobility is less precise with attacks and mobility IE:Turning quick may be difficult, but less likely to hit when flying at top speed in the air.

Unpowered/Wing flight: Use Land scale speeds for winged or gliding based flight, good for long range travel and allows a player to be less likely to be detected having a reduced heat signature and reduced noise levels while gliding. Creatures that can not glide are unable to gain the benefit of reduced noise levels (Sorry Waspinator)

How about it so far?

Terran effect: Certain terrans are more likely to effect or hamper the top speeds of the player, often reducing them by a third or half. This can be anything from highly windy environments, mud, thick forests, or rough ocean currents. Such things will be stated when joining that area.

So based off that scale system, TM Orcariner is stuck somewhere between a 1 and a 2 (air speed). His water speed is slightly above 3. Land speed is slightly above 1.

As for air speed and flapping wings, keep in mind that birds' top speeds are generally recorded from dives. Even in the show, Airazor never displayed any speed resembling a 9 except when she dived (breaking the sound barrier while at it). Depth Charge has a rating of 8 for speed, but his average cruising speed is more than what Airazor (9) or Silverbolt (8) could pull off unless if they were in robot mode.

I've brought that up before, the fastest flying bird is the Swift at 105 mph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift Though the swift is also ridiculously agile..


Well, you don't have to follow that exactly. You could use hover, then shift to Flight when using your boosters for speed scale. I dunno, I'm tired of trying to make sense and battle these things out.. Though you have a point.. you'd have extra points..and your nearing 3 10s.. *facepalm*

Yeah, it's a pretty big downfall by trying to make sense out of a system that's broken to begin with (official toy stats). The Transformers continuity is full of contradictions and mind-boggling moments. I guess sometimes you just gotta throw a number down and hope it gets approved. If we try to make our OCs' stats to a canon character, we'd all be arguing over this stuff for ages.

I'm keeping TM Orcariner's speed at a 5 even if a 195 mph max flight speed is a bit low compared to everyone else. Sure, Buster is a non-TM llama who has a speed of 5, but I'm leaving it the way it is.

For S2 a speed of 5 would be fine for Orcariner, I think. My annoyance was with Glowstick being the second fastest character in S1 next to Primal without spending the needed speed points to do so. With the introduction of TM technology that'll change.

In private the player expressed some concern with maxing out a couple of the stats, yet I fail to see how that is any different from other characters who are already doing so (ex. Orcariner's 10 + 10 + 9 in S2. In the name of fairness I don't see how Nem's speed and skill and whatever else is any different from strength, endurance and courage?

The player also had a quarrel with an idea I had of making my character able to function under water temporarily, yet the fact he has a squid who can fly (and as such masters two environments) and Orcariner developing a flight mode is perfectly fine and acceptable?

Please think before you make your opinions known, NK.. I'm quite fed up with this nonsense now and it's ruining the game for me.

Which character of yours is going to be marine functional? If it's an ability that's due to transmetalization, then it should be perfectly fine. Cheetahs can't fly, but TM Cheetor can do so. Same with gorillas, killer whales, t-rexes, and squids. That's kind of the whole point to going transmetal so that characters gain an ability that they didn't have before (that, and get a serious stat boost).

As for maxing out stats, it only works if you play your character in favor of those stats. For example, if someone maxes out intelligence and sacrifices firepower in order to do so, then it wouldn't be fair to have said character be really dominant in a strict gun fight. I know to some that TM Orcariner looks daunting because he has some high-end stats, but for everything I'm giving him I'm also taking away from him. That's going to be more evident in Season 2.

I've never expressed this before, but I feel trying to make a "balanced" character isn't something I'm into. Maybe it's because of the RPGs I play where you can manipulate the growth of the character from the very beginning in order to shape him/her into what you envision. If I want a tank, then I will first and foremost push everything towards strength and endurance. If I want a scientist, then I'll push everything towards intelligence and skill. If I want a scout, then I'll push everything towards speed and courage. If I want a soldier, then firepower and skill/courage are the stats I'm looking for. The list goes on, but my point is that in order to really make your role stand out above the rest, you have to sometimes take measures to make them instantly recognizable. What other OC would you rather stand behind during a firefight besides a big ol' whale who's got maxed out endurance and maxed out strength? Sure, he's slow on foot and he doesn't have a single gun on him, but he's undoubtedly the best defensive wall you will ever find in the game.

Phoenix:
Don't bring arguments onto the forums.

1) You were mad because in theory, Glowstick's robot mode(keyword) is faster then Nemesis bird mode(Key word) due to the fact that they use different means of propulsion. Even though going by speed in robot modes, Terrorsaur and waspinator are likely faster then Glowstick at flying. Inferno is a little harder to say. This mostly due to the fact you didn't want to put some form of propulsion on Nemesis other then flapping her wings in robot mode. Robot modes are always superior to the beast modes in season 1. So what does this mean? Nemesis is in fact faster then Glowstick in robot mode, just as if both are in beast mode, Nemesis is faster.

2) 3 10s is a little much and often leaves a character rather imbalanced. But if people want to do that,that's fine as long as OOP doesn't have a issue with it.

3) The reason I had issue with that is simply your plans for altering Nemesis to not be a transmetal while being effected by the transmetal surge, to "ditch" the beast mode entirely as you put it, due to your dislike of beastwars ascetics. Your means of going underwater would be due to the character being capable of space flight.

Those are the same answers you received before. I'm done arguing, If you have complaints or plans, run them to OOP. If she says no, then that's it. If she says yes, then that's it. Nobody will complain with her word, she's the DM/GM/Boss Monkey.

Alak:
Eh, Orcariner seems less daunting since there are characters with high firepower now. It just seems sad he wont see another fight against someone his size until Rampage shows up. But it's no different then when Optimal Optimus Primal came into the beast wars. With many of the players being around Terrorsaur's height, the only reasonable way to fight something like that is well.. like Solid Snake fighting a Metal gear. Then again there was that fight with Rex vs Ray.. but we already did that.

Since you brought it up, I'm so gonna add "cardboard box" to Buster's list of weapons.

I actually think a character who just has good stats in essentially everything could actually stand out by reason of reliability.

So there are seven categories for stats. Let's says you give 6 of them a 7, and one of them an 8. Then your character has above average everything. They'll survive a lot of enemy shots. They'll understand and react properly to most things around them. They'll inflict considerable damage. They'll keep up with group travel, and be able to keep up with groups that become smaller and smaller and more and more specialized in speed. They'll win fights just when they need to. If their commander tells them to jump into a canyon, they just might do it.

The key would be for the player to recognize the solid basis they'd given their character, and play them accordingly. There is a lot to be said for well-rounded competence.

That said, I don't personally see anything wrong with stat specialization either. If someone wants their character to specialize in speed, endurance, and strength so they're this crazy sortof cyber-ninja, great. But don't be surprised when Rhinox rocks your character's world by thinking of something your character isn't ready for.

That of course, is a danger inherent in role playing. Few people want other characters to ever have an upper hand on them. A lot of times I've noticed in our role play that a writer will specifically say that their character is merely thinking something to themselves (once in a while with explicit narration that the thoughts are being kept discreet) and immediately, some other character will be like "oh... so-and-so looks really depressed." Or a character will do something that should probably leave another character in stasis lock, and the other character will be like "Bla-bla-bla reeled back as the nuclear bomb took their arm off. 'I'll kill you for that!'" Or a character will do something and say specifically that the other character has essentially no choice but to be in stasis lock. I don't really like either of those.

As for what stats are really suppose to mean... in all honesty, I've always thought stats are just supposed to be based on whatever... seems to make sense.

But people have different opinions on what makes sense, and those differences of opinion don't make them wrong. So I guess it's no surprise this comes up.

I gave Steelclaw a speed stat of 4 'cause... you know, he's a bear. A short bear. It isn't precise, but 4 sounds kinda lumbering to me.

Cheetor's speed stat has always been 10 on the toys, but I would use that as an example anyways because that seems right to me.

I think though, that this shows something a bit more fundamentally controversial about our game:

If the Leviathan, Nomad, unseen mentors, vampiric viruses, whale-hover-devices (sounds like a Batman thing to me), Boss-soldier romance, Raver Blade, alien clones, assassin-society-spacecraft, and the Behemoth unit are any indication, this game has become something we weren't predicting when started.

I think, looking back on what I was thinking about then, and seeing where the game has gone since, it's been awesome to see things change.

With all the ingenuity that has transformed this game though, there is a downside- some newly introduced things in the game have the potential to hurt the playability/equality of our characters.

How does this tie into character stats? Well, if players decide on their characters having new capabilities, the original stats given might be off afterwords.

Steelclaw, for example, recently designed a sniper round with greater puncturing ability. Does this change his firepower stat? I would argue it does. I went ahead anyways though because his stats are about to change in season 2, where he's going to need to be able to pose some threat to the newly transmetallized characters (here's looking at you Orcariner), and I wanted to write the change happening.

We can't regulate invention. I would hate if we made some kinda rule that said "if you wish to introduce some new idea to the game, you must get it approved," because the surprise of everything has really made the game into something hard to predict- something to actually react to and think about.

What I'm trying to say is, if you want to do something new with the game, be sure you reason out what it's going to do other characters, and whether it elevates your character to too powerful a position.

And if anyone finds a problem with some new game mechanic, my guess is that, in most cases, it will be for the best that they bring those problems up. This is something I have failed to do a little too often. I often just figure "everyone else seems fine with it, so... hey."

I'm sorry if all of that seemed a little stream-of-consciousness. I guess what I would conclude all of this with is that game-play is both reliant and independent of character stats. The writing of our story shouldn't be completely bound by who's got better stats in what, but we're in trouble if we ignore those differences for any extended periods of time.

That of course, is a danger inherent in role playing. Few people want other characters to ever have an upper hand on them. A lot of times I've noticed in our role play that a writer will specifically say that their character is merely thinking something to themselves (once in a while with explicit narration that the thoughts are being kept discreet) and immediately, some other character will be like "oh... so-and-so looks really depressed." Or a character will do something that should probably leave another character in stasis lock, and the other character will be like "Bla-bla-bla reeled back as the nuclear bomb took their arm off. 'I'll kill you for that!'" Or a character will do something and say specifically that the other character has essentially no choice but to be in stasis lock. I don't really like either of those.

Sadly, I believe my character had done a couple of those things.

That's why I'm really reeling my character back a bit and really, really taking my time during post because I don't want to make those same mistakes again and again. I know probably some people might think this whole "empathy" aspect that my character has was out of the blue, but I justified this by the fact which has be established that this character is periceved as a "spiritual warrior" with all her meditation sessions and the way she seems to carry herself in the battlefield.

Still, I'm being cautious with the way I'm playing her. There are alot of things I wished to do, but I realized I can't do them because it might not be fair in the RP, which I have no problem in revising and have done.

Since Transmetals are being introduced and my character isn't going transmetal, I have to find some way to get her to at least be able to handle the Transmetal without going against the pre-established character. From what everyone is saying about the Transmetal, my character would be useless in fighting them, which puts me in quite of a predicament.

una wrote:

Since Transmetals are being introduced and my character isn't going transmetal, I have to find some way to get her to at least be able to handle the Transmetal without going against the pre-established character. From what everyone is saying about the Transmetal, my character would be useless in fighting them, which puts me in quite of a predicament.

I don't know about useless... a lot of the non-transmetals were still useful like Rhinox, Inferno, Quick Strike and Silverbolt. They never became useless until fighting TM2s! Really, it seemed that the only major "advantage" to TM1 characters were their vehicle mode which offered increased mobility. They never really seemed more powerful in the show.

I agree with Worpex.

Orcariner is a larger than life character andI think he is ill-placed in S1 but should work well in S2 and 3 because of all the other characters of the same caliber.

Glowstick is a silly name, hehe

WorpeX wrote:I don't know about useless... a lot of the non-transmetals were still useful like Rhinox, Inferno, Quick Strike and Silverbolt. They never became useless until fighting TM2s! Really, it seemed that the only major "advantage" to TM1 characters were their vehicle mode which offered increased mobility. They never really seemed more powerful in the show.

I dunno... it's like a hit or miss. Dinobot seemed to hold up really well despite his lack of upgrades. Rhinox, on the other hand, always seemed at a disadvantage. He used to be able to stomp Megatron in S1, but after the upgrade Megs would always beat him.

I'm tired of the hypocrisy, NK. The whole issue was the fact that a character with a mere speed 5 should not be 5 x faster than a character who spent more points in the speed stat. That argument completely destroys any reason for having a speed higher than say 1, if all you have to do is say "My character has the ultimate propulsion system so my speed 1 character is ten times faster than your speed 10 character, despite my character having spent those points on other stats, so hah!" The speed stat should not necessarily reflect how fast a character is in one mode, but how fast the character is able to move overall. So whichever mode has the faster movement, that is what the speed stat should apply to.

Do not tell me that speed 10 applies to S1s Optimus Primal's gorilla mode. Do not tell me that speed 10 applies to S1s Cheetor's robot mode. See the problem there? They both are fast, but in different modes. Thus their speed 10 stat applies to whichever mode is faster. Your Glowstick character's speed far surpasses that of S1 Cheetor and aside from maybe Primal himself with his rockets, he surpasses ANY S1 character speed wise. So the speed 5 stat just does not fit if the speed stat applies to whichever mode you are faster in, since he is obviously faster in robot form.

It is not fair to anyone who has spent their points on speed to do it that way. And argue all you like but it really doesn't make sense to have most characters super fast in robot form, since in G1 and BW alike 'most' characters were faster in beast mode with a few exceptions such as Primal who had the rocket or whatever system he could pop out. Could G1 Starscream fly as fast in robot form as he could in jet form? Could they break the sound barrier many times over in robot form? Probably not.

TMs are different from the beast forms of S1. In S1 they look like actual animals, whereas the TMs looked more like robot animals to me. I believe I said I might go with a more robotic animal form like that found in G1 Divebomb or such, yet with certain elements of a jet/space craft. Or at least that was the plan until you put me off to the thought of continuing in the rpg.

The rest of you are all awesome, but I'm sorry.. I'm done with NKs self-righteous poo.