Are all Predacons evil?

[Dalgaroth]

MM, no I think that if someone as powerful as Rampage was suddenly given freedom to do what he wanted and to whom, why would he stop at the scientists? Maybe he killed them, then looked at the random passersby and said to himself, "...Hm...Why are they staring? Why are they scared of me?" and at the same time conclude, "They might hurt me. But they can't. Not naymore. I'm free and they can never hurt me." Thus dead.

Power can twist even those with good intentions. ._.

Personally, I think he doesn't like being a monster but he also does. For example,

Blackarachnia: You'll regret this!
Rampage: I regret everything, my sweet.

o_O?

He regrets everything? Sure, it's a quick comeback and it isn;t said in any particular regretful fashion, but those are the words chosen to come out of his mouth. There may be something there. But then I also think he enjoys having control over people and making them hate him, playing with their minds and causing fear. It can easily be theorized that no one was afraid of him before so wouldn't it be, like, a high for someone like him to have people afraid of him? I don't think he ever indicated that he was 'allowed' to kill others because they hurt him or he had a bad past so logically he can do whatever he wants. Such a mindset indicates to me an understanding of moral principles and how the world works to someone educated or similar. In his case, I cannot imagine why scientists would educate their subject on matters of philosophy, rights, wrongs, technical skills, etc if all they wanted was the immortal part of his being and how to replicate it. Doing so woudl be stupid on their part because educating their subject means giving him knowledge that could be used against them. And Rampage is said to be "brilliant." Keeping him in the dark on almost everything would have been the most logical choice. Even so, he still escaped and it wasn't explained how. It could have been an accident, it could have been planned, we don't know, but either way, I don't think he uses his past as an excuse.

The way he carries himself and speaks looks to me like he's highly intelligent, absorbs vocab and knowledge like a sponge, he's very confident in his abilities and improvising comes easy as a result of all of it. He may even be interpreted as being "proud." But I think that pride is born from being on his own for some stellar cycles on the run and being inquisitive enough to try new things. (That's another reason I think he's Maximal in programming. He has a natural inquisitiveness shown often in the show where a Predacon Rampage would simply destroy or seek power through knowledge or other means. Rampage uses knowledge, but he feels he already has power...etcetc hat's a whole other topic..) On his own out there, maybe he learned a few things, but all in the context of what he is, what he was created for, what his life had been until then, how others viewed him, etc. And in gathering that up and using it to establish his identity, I think he grew proud. Proud that he is himself, he's on his own, and most of all, he is no one's subject, no one's doll. His slavery with MEgs as his master seems to be a terrible blow to his pride, resent in his voice and desires when ever he speaks of Megatron indicating so. Pain is nothing new to him, but it seems someone taking his freedom away means more to him than his spark being violated or tortured. It matters, of course - his goal is to get his precious spark back in order to harm those who harmed him. But having his spark used doesn't seem to come off as a big problem as it would to someone who's never had thier spark used before. Like, if one of the Maximals were in his position, it wouldn't just be a power struggle, would it? It would be a violation, an abuse, a terrible tragedy. To Rampage, it seems to be a major inconvenience, rather than an atrocity on his personal well being. He was appalled to see Dinobot II and surprised to find MEgatron in possession of his spark, but he didn't and doesn't seem to ... expect respect from others when it comes to his spark or other wellbeing. . .

As for Depth Charge... it seems to me that the moment DC showed up, Rampage expressed a possessive streak. He seems to be fascinated with DC's hatred for him and his idea of their 'game', of 'playing' and of DC being his 'friend', well, it seems to me that if Rampage's life is death and pain and whatev, then his games with people would be based on those concepts. DC happens to be the only one so far that he respects and likes and has lasted long enough to maintain that rapport. He wants to hurt Depth Charge, wants to 'consume his still pulsating spark', but he loves to play with him and seems to think of their rivalry as a test of who's better, who's more fierce, more powerful, more controlling, more dangerous. To him, Transmutate was the person who was jsut like him without power or knowledge to help itself and treated liek a thing. To him it was a person, andhe heavily sympathized and seemed to geuinely care for it, and I think his reaction towards it reflects what he wants for himself - acceptance and freedom from that image of being a thing worthy only of death and confinement.

But he knows he can't die.

I think to some extent, he knew DC would find a way to end him and therefore was a rival rather than kin, like Transmutate was. We don't know how DC survived. It could have been an accident. Maybe DC fell into a sewer and Rampage was already on the other side of town and was too lazy to walk back. Or maybe Rampage spared him on purpose. Either way, they have this feud that they both feel the only way to end it is that one of them dies and Rampage knows DC is the only one of anyone he's met who can.

DC....While DC is cold, hateful, and even seems to pretend to care about the war while keeping his ambitions to himself, it seems to me there's some semblance of the Maximal he once was, it's just not his first goal. It seems to me that DC i kind of person who cannot deny cold, hard facts. He's too logical, too one tracked , and too skilled a hunter to deny something that could potentially endanger or change his mission or others... or his own foundations. If he was forced to see more to Rampage than he currently knows - reasons behind Rampage's behavior, whatever they were - i think he's still sane and Maximal enough to not be able to deny those facts and come up with a rational solution to said facts. If it turned out that Rampage orchestrated everything somehow or some other evil thing then he could conclude, still, that killing Rampage is the solution. But what if he found out that Rampage was the victim? Yes, he could still conclude that the safest thing to do would be to kill the monster anyway, but then maybe he'd turn his efforts on the Maximal Council. Maybe that's possible. Orrr maybe he learns that the latest experiment on Rampage was to test a new drug, a substance akin to adrenaline that was injected into his fuel lines. MAybe that drug caused Rampage to go ballistic and THAT'S why he leveled the colony AND Starbase Rugby. After that drug wore off, maybe he just went with it and liked his reputation because, again, that's all he knew and to him that power was his freedom.. Maybe after that he pursued knowledge, like learning how to speak the way he does or read or find out what makes people tick by interacting with them and when DC caught him it was a mistake on his part in not knowing how to cover his tracks or give identification when asked. in other words, what if DC found out that Rampage was far more innocent than he seemed? What if the Council was to blame for everything and Rampage was a mislead, tortured young bot who reacted the only way he knew how? I think DC would be thrown for a loop, because despite his hostility, I think I see some noble intentions. His phrase "It's not revenge I'm looking for, it's justice" or similar, certainly sounds like denial at first glance. A delusion, since both those things can easily be mixed up given his story. But what if he's telling the truth? What if, upon learning that Rampage is the victim, he starts to turn his fight for justice towards those who are really the ones to blame? I find it hard to believe that DC would ever forgive Rampage or, like, try to teach him manners. Outside forces might drive it that way but as it is, it's likely he'd have a hard time deciding whether to go through with killing him if the guy is not at fault and such a struggle might last long enough that C would throw him in jail or truss him up somwhere while he thinks before coming to some conclusion. And all because Depth Charge is still Maximal and his fight for justice means to kill Rampage on such terms is not 100% justified. He'd have a really hard time emotionally and stuff but I sincerely think his 'Maximal' ways still survive, from a few clues in the show; those clues being a consistent "Rampage first, Maximal duty second." If duty is second, it means it's still up there on the list... It just so happens DC was never shown anything that could mean Rampage was not entirely at fault. It turns out we never saw anyone tell or show him Transmutate or any records or any evidence or anything about Ramapge's true history. So, in his hate and drive for justice, he turned his Maximal duty away in favor of that first priority and killed Rampage...who seemed to get a real kick out of it, for ambiguous reasons. I can think of many ways to interpret that laugh, but from my position, I think he let go because not only was Depth Charge killing him (i.e. he MADE DC want to kill him, yay), but his game was over and in a way they both lost and both won, AND he finally could find freedom. He let go because he was ready to.

Hmm...in conclusion I don't think either of them are monsters or evil on a big picture scale. On a smaller, individual scale, Rampage is a terrifying example of immorality and unrestrained character and Depth Charge is a jerk who's so focused on doing the right thing, he does the wrong thing sometimes, but I don't think he's ever killed or done anything like that in his search for justice.

Did I just write an essay at 11:31 PM? -_-''''''''''''''''''

[una]

Did I just write an essay at 11:14 PM? -_-''''''''''''''''''

Yes, you did

[Dalgaroth]

lol! I jsut edited some things now though. So updated! 8D

[7Knight-Wolf]

Rampage is a sick individual. His sickness may come from somekind of techinical mistake in his makeup, like a biological brain disorder in a human, or his craziness could be due to something deeper. Rampage could, quite possibly, be a wounded soul...so wounded he turned to sick habits and lost almost his entire mind. He likes being a monster and the pain of others makes him feel good, spiking his "pleasure center," while his understandable human emotions rarely resurface. In any case Rampage is not a sociopath, as he is lonely and craved the friendship of Transmutate. He also longs for freedom from Megatron, and never seems happy with the Predacons. I think his insanity curable, personally.

what idd you guys think of Rampage's "death" there at the end? When I saw it, it always looked to me like he allowed Depth Charge to stab his spark. He resisted, but at the last moment, released the knife and let himself be stabbed. Why do you think that it? Was he so hurt, deep down, that he didn't even want to live? Was it suicide or a gamble?

[SkyxDB]

Yeah, I agree 7Knight-Wolf about Rampage. I'll admit that as a kid I though he was just some sort of transforming monster, but of course my perception of him changed as I got older. But even as a kid, the epsiode with Transmuate made me feel sorry for him. Also another thing about thing about Rampage, that he kind of reminds me of the monster from the original Frakenstien story by Mary Shelley.

But I do believe his death was a suidice from the way he let Deptcharge stab him, because I think Rampage did have a part of him that wanted to die.

[Whirlaway]

I've posted pages and pages about this topic on ATT and Allspark in the past Where do I get the time? Well currently I'm procrastinating over a 20 pg. research proposal...

I think it's very telling that the four most violent characters- ones that reveled in violence, not simply used it as a means to an end- were Maximals. Rampage, Depth Charge, Dinobot and (sort of/debatable) Tigerhawk. In order: Rampage/X was a serial killer and self-professed cannibal. Depth Charge was a violent maniac (he went out with a murder-suicide). Dinobot always advocated coersion and violence, and chose to align with Maximals, regardless of his heritage. Tigerhawk is debatable as a character... no doubt he was destructive, but maybe it was the Vok. Or maybe not, dunno
We also have to consider the fact that DC is a Maximal Imperial Peace Marshal, meaning he's a 'Guardian' in charge of keeping law and order. The other one we know of is Devcon, just as nasty, so it's possible to take his character as somewhat typical of his post: surely any uprisings would be dealt with quickly and... thoroughly. Perhaps Cybertron was even in a perpetual state of Martial Law, with guys like DC and Devcon roaming the streets? Not a pleasant place for any Predacon.


Politics: It seems that Cybertron was an autocracy/monarchy (pretty much everything points to this) with the Autobots and Maximals ruling with a heavy hand. Megatron is "evil" in the sense that he's a revolutionary and willing to upset the status quo. We know his leadership style as tyrannical, but tyranny is actually a sort of synonym for autocracy. Basically it sets up one guy as ruler/dictator (think Augustus Caesar) and that guy relies on government leaders who he appoints to help him keep control (militaristic, religious, whatever else). So I believe he's simply looking to depose the existing power structure and put himself at top, in place of whomever is there now (the Maximal Elders?). This is how an autocracy works. It's not something just the Predacons advocate (again... lot of speculation on my part). He does openly promise genocide on the Autobots and Maximals (in "Other Visits"), but my thinking is that the only reason the Maximals didn't execute the Decepts/Preds leaders when the Pax Cybertronia was charted was because it would make a martyr of them. Best instead to strip their power and rank, and exile the more troublesome ones. Again, just a different form of the existing autocracy.

Heritage: I think that Maxs and Preds, except protoforms, are built from existing technology that is 'left over' (shared?) with the original Autobots and Decepticons. Guys like Megatron, in particular. Assuming again a monarchy, it would be an intolerable insult therefore for him not to have power and prestige. The equivilant of a prince losing the throne the king sat on, I guess. And an insult not just to him personally, but all his race, essentially wiping out their lineage.


And believe it or not... I could actually write more on the subject, but I've said enough, lol >.>