Did Optimus Primal have a part in Protoform X's Creation?

[una]

I was watching Deep Metal and I watched the exchange between Depth Charge and Optimus.

Depth Charge says, "I was searching the galaxy for your mistake."

Now, too bad I don't have a scanner to show you guys, but in the Beast Wars prequel comic, there is a scene where it goes like this. It is between Optimus and Rattrap.

Optimus: "...And the Council has asked for us to help clean up a mistake."

Rattrap: "So now we're janitors?! What are we gettin' outta this?"

Optimus: "It's not just the Council's mis-"

He got cut off.

Second scene which happens before this:

Cheetor: "Hey, I thought you were with Optimus? When did you get back?"

Rhinox: "A few klicks ago. Optimus sent me to look after you two. He is taking care of one last piece of business."

The next scene shows Optimus placing one hand on X's pod and head is bowed.


Wow! Maybe I'm reading it too much of it but it is just so pointing to Optimus being a part of it.

[Phoenix]

I never read said comics so I'm not sure.. I always assumed Primal just felt bad for being a puppet for the council but this interaction almost makes it look like he knew more than he was letting on.. Seems awfully out of character for Primal to partake in such a venture though. He never struck me as the ambitious scientist type who would go to such lengths.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

Hm. I always thought of him as the Council just using him and his ship to drop X off on some uninhabited planet since it was impossible to kill him. Or so they thought because it turns out just a little raw energon stabbed through his spark took care of everything as DC proved. But it would also be unethical for them to have killed what they created. I don't think Primal was actually involved in the plan and creation of X. Not knowing any better since he was new to leading an entire exploration crew, I think the Council took advantage of him and that opportunity. He knew a lot more about the so-called indestructable spark than what he let on to his crew (like Phoenix suggested), but it was his burden to bear and his responsibility to take care of it, or rather fix the Elders' mistake. So far I have been playing Optimus in the game with just that; he was around and possibly overlooked or observed some of the testing with X (as seemed to be suggested in the show), and was provided with the information he needed from the Council about him as well as being "entrusted" with the mission to get rid of him without having to kill him. I highly doubt Optimus would have had any part of his creation and possibly the torturing that they put X through. This is also why I've been playing him as very unsupportive to tests like these (and Nemesis's and Arachnitron's) and avoiding the corruption of politics.

[una]

Yeah, that's what I think too because we know that Optimus wouldn't actually participate in something unethical. That's not Optimus. I would believe if it he did, it was against his will or wasn't told all the facts which will fit the lying department of the Council. Stupid Politicans.

[Darkshadow14]

Second scene which happens before this:

Cheetor: "Hey, I thought you were with Optimus? When did you get back?"

Rhinox: "A few klicks ago. Optimus sent me to look after you two. He is taking care of one last piece of business."

The next scene shows Optimus placing one hand on X's pod and head is bowed.

I don't remember that part. I may have to look it up. Goodness, my memory is faded.

I thought two things, one; Optimus was just supposed to make sure X was in a secure area, not escaping from his cell. And obviously he did. Or two, after he escaped to have him in lock down. But seemed to me he was already supposed to be pretty secure.

[WorpeX]

It was heavily implied in the show and the comics that Optimus had a hand in the protoform X incident. He probably let him escape and then rampage went on to destroy colony omicron. In the show they actually have a flashback of them capturing rampage and Optimus was shown in his original form (not his transmetal one as he was in at the time), implying that he was at the event. So I think he also had a hand in capturing and imprisoning rampage as well. They never really explain it though. They left it up for our imagination.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

Hm. I like the story here.

[una]

I know! It's exciting. After all these years, I yet again found something new. I never caught this until the comic.

[DarkSpark]

Hm. I always thought of him as the Council just using him and his ship to drop X off on some uninhabited planet since it was impossible to kill him. Or so they thought because it turns out just a little raw energon stabbed through his spark took care of everything as DC proved. But it would also be unethical for them to have killed what they created. I don't think Primal was actually involved in the plan and creation of X. Not knowing any better since he was new to leading an entire exploration crew, I think the Council took advantage of him and that opportunity. He knew a lot more about the so-called indestructable spark than what he let on to his crew (like Phoenix suggested), but it was his burden to bear and his responsibility to take care of it, or rather fix the Elders' mistake. So far I have been playing Optimus in the game with just that; he was around and possibly overlooked or observed some of the testing with X (as seemed to be suggested in the show), and was provided with the information he needed from the Council about him as well as being "entrusted" with the mission to get rid of him without having to kill him. I highly doubt Optimus would have had any part of his creation and possibly the torturing that they put X through. This is also why I've been playing him as very unsupportive to tests like these (and Nemesis's and Arachnitron's) and avoiding the corruption of politics.

I have to agree with you there, Primal always seemed to be a very ethical bot, always looking for another way to win the day without resorting to brute force or violence (much to Dinobot's chagrin XD). Also, he appeared rather inexperienced as a commander at the beginning of the beast wars but picked up the ways of warfare equally fast as the war dragged on and he learned just how far Megatron was willing to go to win. Like, how Primal underestimated Meg's during the arrival of Tigatron episode and assumed Meg's would be racing for the pod right away instead of targeting him to prevent the Maximal's only flyer from competing with his own for the stasis pod, ignoring Dinobot's earlier advice. Optimus went from Explorer Captain to military commander because he had to, trial by fire as it were.

Back on track, I think Optimus was simply dragged into the disposal of Protoform X rather than having taken part in its creation, the Elders basically wanted to cover up their mistake, whereas in Primal's case I'm sure he just wanted to ensure Rampage would NEVER escape to harm anyone else ever again.

Though personally, I always found it strange that the Elders overlooked energon as being the only substance capable of destroying Rampage's spark...Seems like something they would have at least tried once given how energon supposedly extinguishes any other spark it comes in contact with, as Megatron himself said after he used his energon knife to cut out the core of Rampage's spark.

[xCubicZirconia]

Which comic was this in, again?

[Blackrosefencer]

I think I'm with Worpex on this one. It is heavily implied that he DID have a hand in the creation of Protoform X even in the show (I never read the comics either, though I've always wanted to). I mean Depth Charge even says as Una pointed out: "I was searching the galaxy for your mistake." So he had to have been involved enough to have made a mistake, right? Depth Charge wouldn't accuse him of making a mistake if his only role in the whole ordeal was dropping off the dangerous creation somewhere. Besides, if that were his only role, how would Depth Charge have known that the stasis pods had been released into Earth's orbit when the Axalon landed on Earth? It's been a while since I've seen the episode where they discuss all of the Protoform X stuff, but isn't there even a flashback scene? And wasn't Optimus telling the story too? Which would suggest to me that he was there....

The way I see it is that Optimus was involved with the project....fully. He was a young bot at the time. Yes, his moral standards would suggest that he would never get involved with such a thing, but I imagine he sees this as the biggest mistake of his life. It could be that he felt honored to be involved in such an important project and accepted the job quickly without really finding out all the facts first. I mean, he was young. He was probably more interested in furthering, or maybe even starting, his career and getting in good with the Maximal Elders. And he trusted the Maximal Elders 100%.....why would he "get all the facts?" In his eyes, the Maximal Elders could do no wrong, so there was no reason to suspect anything immoral going on.

As the work progressed, he probably realized what was going on, but felt conflicted. I mean, the people he had grown to trust and respect were doing such things he felt that only Predacons were capable of doing. He maybe felt as though he couldn't cross the people who were running the government of the planet and pretty much ruling his life (just had some inspiration for a fanfiction here!)....not to mention he was employed by them. He'd lose his job if he spoke up about it! He probably felt trapped in the situation. He also maybe felt obligated to stick around and try to make things right and see to it that X was treated right. And maybe Worpex is right...maybe he did set X free in hopes of righting the wrong that he felt responsible for, but, he was young, so he didn't realize just how dangerous that would be. Or maybe he did know...maybe he knew that by setting X free he'd be releasing him to reign terror and destruction over Omicron and that would get the project shut down.

But maybe (in terms of the Primal in our little game), maybe his involvement in the program is why he feels so sympathetic towards Nemesis and Arachnitron. Maybe he feels that if he were to help them or protect them, it would somehow make up for the things he was involved in back on Cybertron.

In short, I don't find it at all hard to imagine that Optimus was involved in this project. He most definitely didn't support it, but he was young at the time. He probably had no idea what he was getting into when he took the job. He probably didn't think it through all the way and as time went on, things got out of hand. It was probably such a relief for him to be in charge of an exploration party....he probably felt that life was so much simpler away from all the politics of the planet. Maybe he even saw it as an escape from Cybertron and the Maximal Council. If he was on a ship light years away, he wouldn't get mixed up in their politics and corruption. Nor would he have to come to terms with his feelings about the Council. He could just run away and forget.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

Ooooo. I am very intrigued by your opinion on this, Blackrosefencer, as I thoughtfully stroke my chin reading your explanation. I think I would like to develop him in the game under those exact pretenses. Thank you, and Worpex, for that.

[una]

Ooooooooooh baby! Deep stuff and wow!

Cubic, the comic is called Dawn of Future's Past.

[xCubicZirconia]

I-I must find this manga/comic/graphic novel/whatever! xD

[una]

I just wanted to add this.

I wondered if Optimus knew it was Starscream's spark when he was part of the project? Remembering when Starscream's ghost came to the Beast Wars, Optimus says Starscream's profile was classified by the Maximal Elders. So I was thinking: Was this classified before or after the project? If before, it may prove what I always thought that Optimus was lied to. Maybe the Maximal Elders told the scientists that Starscream was an autobot? Or was converted during the war? So if that is true, then Optimus didn't know about Starscream until Possession then his comment on Bad Spark, if he knew who this Starscream was, he may have never agreed to be a part of the Protoform X project in the first place.