I feel old and crotchety

[Phoenix]

Heh, my interest in transformers is far from as intense as certain fans out there. Like I stated before I only ever read two comics (I'm just not a comic book fan.. I didn't read any other forms of comics either) of the tf variety. I watched and own the two tf series that really pulled me in on dvd (used to tape reruns of G2 back in the days, then later bought the complete series on dvd, and BW I only got to see after I bought the dvd sets).

I might have seen a couple of episodes of Beast Machines (there were too many angry people voicing their less-than-approving opinions immediately after I watched BW), and Car Robots/Robots in Disguise (or whatever it was named) I skipped alltogether.

I did watch probably a majority of Armada on youtube, but that show had certain very annoying aspects to it. It was rather painful to see an only partially completed show being released to the public like that.

So again I mostly gave up and was only semi-interested when they brought in the next couple of series. Saw some TF Energon episodes, even fewer Cybertron episodes (maybe a couple), avoided the next show, but I think I have caught most of TF Prime on youtube.

As for the Japanese only stuff, I did suffer through a painstaking 10 minutes of Headmasters (dubbed.. I am not an anime fan and Japanese has sadly had a tendency of giving me headaches since I don't know the language) but nothing else. Mindwipe's Indian chanting putting people to sleep was just so awful I put away the dvd I was stupid enough to buy.

I know the post BW (excluding BM) stuff has mostly been imported from Japan, often changed around to better suit the North American population perhaps, but I really didn't find any post BW tf show that I enjoyed enough to watch on a regular basis either. Yet, although on rare occasions now (time restrictions), I can still watch an episode of BW or even certain G1 ones and enjoy them.

[Optimal Optimus Primal]

OOP: I wish I was..

!! You're terrible, NK. Poor CZ.

generally subs all the way these days. They also help you read faster!

I agree. I don't really watch any animé anymore, but when I was in college, my roommate was huge on it and she had me watch several 'toons in subtitles. Muuuuch better than dubbing. I quite like the Japanese language but I have never learned it.

Anywho, I watched Armada dubbed all the way through just because I'm such an awesome and loyal fan ( ), and it wasn't that bad. The kids bothered me the most. I saw most of Energon, but when Cybertron came along... I couldn't watch it. I saw two or three episodes and it was just... horrible. I couldn't even watch it for Garry. But the series were also kind of boring. I mean, the whole Unicron Trilogy just kind of blends together for me. It was the same plots over and over.

Hey, JZ, don't feel TOO old about it. Our generation just recognizes quality when we find it.

[NaitoKage]

Well of those series, Energon/Superlink is probably the more boring of them. Cybertron is painful, but it's japanese version Galaxy Force is enjoyable, though it was retroconned into being part of the Unicron trilogy. You didn't even see any of the characters from the other series until they animated a little bit and added it as extra at the end.

[GoktimusPrime]

Heh, my interest in transformers is far from as intense as certain fans out there. Like I stated before I only ever read two comics (I'm just not a comic book fan.. I didn't read any other forms of comics either) of the tf variety. I watched and own the two tf series that really pulled me in on dvd (used to tape reruns of G2 back in the days, then later bought the complete series on dvd, and BW I only got to see after I bought the dvd sets).

It's a shame you haven't read the comics. When it comes to G1 the comics just beat the cartoon hands down. And when it comes to G2, there's NO comparison. The G2 cartoon was just select G1 episode with that annoying Cyber-Net Space Cube. The G2 comics actually told the story of Generation 2! (e.g. how Megatron changed from being a gun to a tank (thankyouverymuch, Cobra Commander)) IMO, you haven't truly experienced G1 or G2 lore until you read the Marvel Comics.

I might have seen a couple of episodes of Beast Machines (there were too many angry people voicing their less-than-approving opinions immediately after I watched BW), and Car Robots/Robots in Disguise (or whatever it was named) I skipped alltogether.

I think Beast Machines is worth checking out and forming your own opinion. It's actually a well written story... but perhaps not the best sequel to Beast Wars nor the most entertaining to watch TV series for children. It's by far the most adult/mature story ever written for a Transformers TV series (which is both its strength and weakness).

I did watch probably a majority of Armada on youtube, but that show had certain very annoying aspects to it. It was rather painful to see an only partially completed show being released to the public like that.

The Armada cartoon was okay -- but I hated the dubbed version and much preferred watching Micron Legend. One big thing I had against the dub was that almost all the Transformers sounded the same! Oh look, there's Hot Shot talking in a flat monotonous voice with Ratchet who's also talking in a flat monotonous voice... *yawwwn* I gave up on watching TF dubs after that -- I've seen Super Link and Galaxy Force but have never watched Energon or Cybertron.

The Armada comics were actually pretty good IMO. I really love how they portrayed Cybertron as a caste society with the Autobots as a kind of elite warrior caste and the Mini-Cons as a kind of "untouchable" under-caste. Anyone who's ever witnessed or read about caste societies like India, Japan etc. would find this interesting. I also enjoyed the Worlds Collide Saga too. The Energon comics I didn't enjoy as much, but of course, that was prematurely canned before it could be completed -- and thus there was never a Cybertron comic series (thankyouverymuch, Pat Lee )

As for the Japanese only stuff, I did suffer through a painstaking 10 minutes of Headmasters (dubbed.. I am not an anime fan and Japanese has sadly had a tendency of giving me headaches since I don't know the language) but nothing else. Mindwipe's Indian chanting putting people to sleep was just so awful I put away the dvd I was stupid enough to buy.

If you're watching the English dub, no wonder you only suffered through 10 minutes of it. In fact, I'm impressed that you lasted that long! Calling the Japanese G1 dubs "English" is really stretching the definition of what one would consider to be English. The Star TV dubs BUTCHER the English language completely and it really does NOT translate the story properly at all. God... I used to think Macross: Clash of the Bionoids was the worst dubbed anime ever... then I saw Japanese Transformers dubbed. <shudder>

If listening to Japanese feels like a headache to you, then listening to StarTV's attempt at speaking English is like getting hammered in the genitals with a sledgehammer, having your body cut with razors before being doused with battery acid, then being covered in tar and having echidnas thrown at you, while tied to the back of a wild buffalo with a unicycle shoved up its backside while listening to Milli Vanilli broadcast over loudspeakers.

I know the post BW (excluding BM) stuff has mostly been imported from Japan, often changed around to better suit the North American population perhaps, but I really didn't find any post BW tf show that I enjoyed enough to watch on a regular basis either. Yet, although on rare occasions now (time restrictions), I can still watch an episode of BW or even certain G1 ones and enjoy them.

Beast Wars was the best story ever written for Transformers TV, hands down. There was nothing better before it (the G1 cartoon is overrated) and nothing better ever since. If you'd like to explore more decent TF stories outside of Beast Wars, then I'd recommend looking at the comic books. More recently the Last Stand of the Wreckers mini-series was quite good. Anything written by Shane McCarthy should probably be avoided (although I thought Spotlight: Blurr was okay).

[Phoenix]

Heh others before you have recommended comics.. but really I just cannot get into comic books.. Dear lord an old friend of mine tried to introduce me to everything from x-men to what not in comic format, but I just couldn't get drawn in by the story when you get chopped up pictures like that trying to tell it. Either I read, or I watch it on tv. Comics just never managed to hold my fascination. Maybe it's a girl thing, I don't know, since the comic addicts I know have tended to be guys.

Either way I'm just not that interested in expanding on the tf universe at the moment. Got more than enough drama in my own life.

[NaitoKage]

Hmm.. between the two, I'd probably say the G1 cartoon is easier for most people to get into then the comics. I read the G1 comics and G2 comics and they were a pretty painful experience, but then again there were few comic books at the time I did enjoy.

Comic books really depend more on the person's interest rather then gender or anything like that, specially since comic writing is a different flow then tv writing.

[GoktimusPrime]

In general, the UK G1 comics were a far superior read compared to the US G1 comics... until of course UK Marvel writer Simon Furman took over from Bob Budiansky in writing the US series too. Beast Wars fans should recognise Furman as the guest writer of the final episode of Beast Wars (The Nemesis Part 2). Mind you, Budiansky did have his moments. One thing I thought he was particularly good at better than most other Transformer writers was making the Transformers seem alien and otherworldly. Too often a lot of Transformer writers, including Furman and Beast Wars writers DiTillio and Forward, just make the Transformers feel too human. Budiansky was great at giving us occasional hints that they were beings from another planet with moments like:
+ Some Transformers initially mistake Earth vehicles as being the dominant life forms instead of humans.
+ Bruticus squealing like a girl when he first saw a human (then asking Megatron if he could squish it, but still with an "Eww, like totally gross!" mentality)
+ The Decepticon Battlechargers writing graffiti all over Earth in the Decepticon language, not thinking that humans can't read it. Then when they tried to write in English, they got their "S" backwards (it's not often that we're reminded that the Transformers don't speak English (or any Earth language) as their mother tongue).

...the live action movie introduced some of this too, but Budiansky was already doing it nearly 25 years prior.

But overall Furman's writing stomps all over Budiansky's. (^O^)

[OriginalSafeguard]

I think I may have you beat. I'm 37. I often feel like I am older than my fellow fans, but that is ok. I can just point to my 11-year-old son as an excuse.

Heh, noobs.

I reckon I'm probably the oldest person here. Too embarrassed to say my exact age, but put it this way...
+ I was in primary school when Transformers started
+ I was in high school when Transformers Generation 2 started
+ I was in university when Beast Wars started
+ I was a graduate student when Beast Machines and Car Robot came out

Beat that.

But yes, I remember being at a convention in 2003 where we had a Beast Wars toy battle diorama on display, and these guys came up and went, "Oh wow, Beast Wars! I remember that!" My friend and I looked at each other and my mate said, "You know we're getting old when people talk about Beast Wars with nostalgia!"

Last week one of my students asked me who was my first Transformer, I answered "Brawn." The class gave me a blank stare with NO idea who I was talking about (then again, I find most kids these days aren't familiar with any Transformer not named Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Megatron or Starscream (-_-)). When kids ask me "Who's your favourite Transformer?" I always stump them by saying "Time Warrior!"

[OriginalSafeguard]

I couldn't agree more.

Beast Wars was the best story ever written for Transformers TV, hands down. There was nothing better before it (the G1 cartoon is overrated) and nothing better ever since.

In general, the UK G1 comics were a far superior read compared to the US G1 comics... until of course UK Marvel writer Simon Furman took over from Bob Budiansky in writing the US series too. Beast Wars fans should recognise Furman as the guest writer of the final episode of Beast Wars (The Nemesis Part 2). Mind you, Budiansky did have his moments. One thing I thought he was particularly good at better than most other Transformer writers was making the Transformers seem alien and otherworldly. Too often a lot of Transformer writers, including Furman and Beast Wars writers DiTillio and Forward, just make the Transformers feel too human. Budiansky was great at giving us occasional hints that they were beings from another planet with moments like:
+ Some Transformers initially mistake Earth vehicles as being the dominant life forms instead of humans.
+ Bruticus squealing like a girl when he first saw a human (then asking Megatron if he could squish it, but still with an "Eww, like totally gross!" mentality)
+ The Decepticon Battlechargers writing graffiti all over Earth in the Decepticon language, not thinking that humans can't read it. Then when they tried to write in English, they got their "S" backwards (it's not often that we're reminded that the Transformers don't speak English (or any Earth language) as their mother tongue).

...the live action movie introduced some of this too, but Budiansky was already doing it nearly 25 years prior.

But overall Furman's writing stomps all over Budiansky's. (^O^)

[Nurann]

*cough* O-Safeguard, please review the notice on Necroposting and remember to check the dates of threads before replying.