artemis-lady-warrior wrote:
Now let me point out something.
Humans have souls. Animals do not.
Humans know right from wrong. Animals do NOT and they don't care!
Humans can speak and KNOW what they mean when they say it. Animals cannot, not even parrots because parrots just mimic what people say.
A human can learn how to use a computer properly. Animals Can NOT! If you sit a monkey in front of a computer it won't get on line and browse. it will bang out random things con the keyboard.
Humans do not have intercourse with animals. They have intercourse with other humans. Unlike animals. Ever heard of the Cabbit? It's the result of Cats and Rabbits having kids.
Animals don't worry about Global warming or pollution. Humans do.
Humans can also learn other languages, animals cannot.
Plus animals can get away with killing each other and eating each other without any problems. Humans go to jail. Thou shalt not kill!
There are many other things I can point out about humans that make us different than animals but I won't.
The concept of a soul is a philosophical and religious issue. In terms of biology, it is of no consequence unless the soul can be seen, measured, and exists in a physical sense. Since the soul only exists in a metaphysical sense, it has no bearing on the science of evolution.
To say that animals dont know right from wrong and more importantly dont care is fallacious. My brother owns a dog that carries a guilty look whenever she has an "Accident" in the house. Gorillas have been known to sacrifice themselves to save a wounded mate. Entire herds of elephants will work together to save a stranded calf.
In another case,
Dolphins saved a man from a pack of sharks.
If Animals absolutely and totally dont know right from wrong, and dont care either which way, please, be my guest and attempt to explain the behavior we see.
Humans can speak this is true, and your point about parrots is absolutely correct.
However, Dolphins DO communicate. While it's not known if they have a formal language and certainly requires more research into the matter. They do have a signature whistle to identify themselves. Scientists have taught apes to use rudimentary sign language to communicate, and the barking of the dog is considered to be a form of communication as well. Wild dogs and wolves do not bark in the same manner that household dogs do. A certain bark denotes excitement, another anger, another still for "Intruder!". Dogs try to imitate human language to give us the gist of what they're trying to tell us.
If you're talking about higher minded concepts such as abstract communication, like discussing religion on a forum on the internet (:P), then of course, animals cannot communicate on this level with the possible exception of dolphins.
Consider for a moment that the average human brain weighs 1300 - 1400 grams. The average Dolphin brain, in the case of the bottlenose dolphin at least, weighs 1500 - 1700 grams. Dolphin brains are larger, they merely use their grey matter differently. If Dolphins used their brains as we did, they would be capable of language on the same level as us, if not better.
Your point about monkeys and computers is also false as a cursory google search turned up. Chimps have actually beaten humans at computer memory games.
Now you're correct in the presumption that they wont punch in a website and start browsing the internet. That requires sophisticated language and the ability to process abstract information.
Additionally, put someone whom has never heard of, nor conceived of, nor knows of a computer in front of one. Lets also say this person can neither read, nor write, and is in many ways mentally handicapped (to make up for brain size difference in this analogy). Would he get online and browse? Or would he bang out random things on the keyboard?
The cabbit is an urban myth. They exist as readily as the bogey man.
Animals do not worry about global warming because animals do not cause global warming, neither for that matter have they established civilizations which can be disrupted by excessive climate change, nor for that matter do they have the resources or cognitive capability of understanding and dealing with such an issue.
Humans too can kill each other without any real consequences for the killer. It's called War. Incidentally, certain chimpanzees and lemurs also engage in war against other chimpanzees and lemurs.
Humans only go to jail when they have committed a crime according to the criminal justice system.
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7Knight-Wolf wrote:Razor one, here's something to consider. I don't believe Carbon dating is accurate because most of the fossils we find today (I believe) were very quickly fossilized. There was a worldwide flood which killed almost everything on earth, and which speeded up the fossil process from millions of years to just a few hours or minutes.
And here's some more proof that carbon dating is wrong. One time a gradeschool teacher took a large slab of rock and made her school children do an activity with it. They decorated pictures of animals and stick-people. Then the peice of artwork was stolen. The teacher made a big deal about finding it, but it was not recovered until about a year later when an archealogist found it hidden in a cave. Not knowing that it was someone's work of art, the scientist carbon-dated it, conculding that it was about three hundred years old and made by Native Americans in the area. Then the treacher stepped in to claim her stolen artwork. Interesting, isn't it?
Artemis, bravo! There is no proof that we are very closely related to monkeys, and scientifically speaking creation and evolution are just as likely. Logically, creation makes more sense.
I must disagree with one thing, though. Being an animal freak, I believe that animals do have souls, although perhaps not as deep as that of humans. Contrary to popular belief, the Bible does not say that animals are soul-less. In fact, it hints otherwise in Romans 8, saying that when God's kingdom comes, animals will be set free into "the glorious freedom of the sons of God" depending on translation. This probably means that they will have the same freedoms as the Sons of God, which in that context means humans.
Anyway, our DNA. Besides being similar to both chickens and apes, did you know our bodies are made up of many of the same elements as...dust? ("God formed man out of the dust of the earth...")
Worldwide flood? No geological evidence whatsoever.
If however there WAS a worldwide flood, consider the following.
The fossil record we have would be complete and nearly perfect whereas it's quite fragmentary, almost vexingly so. If fossilisation occurred as rapidly as you say, we would be digging up fossils left right and center all at the same strata of soil.
Consider also that such a world wide flood would annihilate all the trees, grass, insects and so on.
Consider also geological features that are created by the gradual weathering of water against stone, such as the Grand Canyon. In a worldwide flood, the canyon (if it existed before the flood) would be filled with sediment. If it was formed after the flood, how pray tell did it form so quickly?
Your gradeschool teacher story is wrong. When said scientist carbon dated the "Art", he was dating the rock, not the artwork.
If you doubt that the radioactive decay of unstable isotopes of carbon 14 occurs at a constant rate and is a reliable method of dating, then you doubt nuclear theory. If you doubt nuclear theory and can supply evidence that it is wrong or fallacious I would be most interested in seeing your evidence.
There is evidence that apes and humans are closely related. Human Chromosome 2. It is the result of the fusion of two ape chromosomes. The genetic information present in the two ape chromosomes and the fused counterpart in Human Chromosome 2 is IDENTICAL to these two chromosomes, just stuck together. I even supplied a handy
Link to backup what I'm saying.
If humans NEVER descended from ape ancestors, why then are these chromosomes identical? What is ape DNA doing in humans?
If we were entirely separate species, completely unconnected from the web of life, why then do we share so much DNA with the supposedly lower life forms we're meant to lord over? Why do we share so many anatomical characteristics with apes? Consider that our organs are in near identical positions as apes. Consider that the muscle and bone tissue of humans is remarkably similar to animal muscle and bone for a supposedly unconnected species.
And if humans have been a totally separate species for all time, when, then did we suddenly flash into existence? And if man was created by god, why then did he throw animal DNA into our genetic makeup? Would he not "Design" better, superior DNA?
If Apes and Humans never shared a common ancestor, explain the genetic similarities. For that matter, explain ANY genetic similarity between humans and any other animal. If we are all truly separate life forms, there would be no genetic similarities at all.
Account for the anomaly of genetic similarities observed between humans and apes and humans and chickens if we presume that all are seperate species that have no common ancestors with each other at all, that each and every one of them has been a distinct species completely unrelated from the beginning.
Furthermore, account for the fact that Human Chromosome 2 is identical to two ape chromosomes fused together end to end if there is in fact no common ancestry.
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7Knight-Wolf wrote:
God originally created human minds and eyes to work perfectly. He originally made animals and humans able to survive without killing each other. After Adam sinned, the world as we know it changed. If our brains worked perfectly, we would hardly need a Savior now would we? When God creates the new earth, everything from molecules to brains will work perfectly.
The purpose of this imperfection is, as explained in the Bible, to refine humans. The more trials we accept or work through with God's help, the stronger our faith. The stronger our love. The wiser we are when we are reunited with Him.
I'm sorry, but I cant argue on grounds requiring faith. I dont believe in god and I dont think the story of genesis should be taken as point blank literal and historical account of to beginning. It is a great story that tells of gods love and compassion for man, how man betrayed god and himself in the process and so on, but as a valid explanation for how we and the universe came to be, I see no evidence to support it. Quite the contrary, I see much evidence that contradicts the literal interpretation.
If you subscribe to they young earth hypothesis, and I do apologise if I'm wrong on this but it does seem that you do, please explain why if the the earth is so young that we find so many fossils in the soil. Take into account that the flood was historical only in the aspect that the black sea flooded, a local event that resonated strongly in cultures throughout the area.
If the earth is so young, why then does the cratering record on the moon and mars suggest otherwise. Why then does radioactive dating prove the earth is far older then a mere 10,000 or so years old?
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If we were to use the whole thing,we could not only understand more of the Universe,but God's connection to it.I go back to Nostradamus,and his prophecies,as he,having better use of his brain,was able to see the eyes that has a 'God-like' quality,which is to see into the future,.But,even though Nostadamus had that power to see,he does not have the power of his whole brain.If we were able to,we can be able to 'alter' our bodily functions,figure out more things that can advance or eliminate the laws and theories we have now.
I remember that Nostadamus himself used symbols for his prophecies,much like the revelations of God's chosen prophets,as they were able to see things(But this could be due to the brain's improper use,due to fasting and/or dehydration,but,in some way,we are able to trigger hallucinations with a dying brain).God,or the people He chose,interpret His message into symbols that even us today are still trying to comprehend.
I guess this would take a whole lifetime of studying for me,and I know I lack the research for it,but this is what I think about.I would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Nostradamus lived from 1503 - 1566. The reason he wrote most of his works in in symbols and riddles was because if he hadnt, he'd have been burned at the stake for witchcraft.
Dont believe me? Look up Giordano Bruno, an Italian philosopher that was burned at the stake for proposing that the heliocentric model of the solar system, a fate that Galileo narrowly avoided some time afterward.
I can neither prove nor disprove your ideas on the usage of his brain. It is possible his brain may have worked differently. Einsteins brain, for instance, was found to have areas that are slightly larger then in normal humans, such as the areas that handle perception, so it is possible.
Oh, and
I Am Nostradamus! 
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artemis-lady-warrior wrote:I find it totally retarded(for lack of a better word) for people to prefer believing that humans came from apes than actually being human from the beginning. Also 7Knight-Wolf made a good point.
Plus there is the fact that most apes began as apes and are STILL apes.
And believing that humans came form humans makes mopre sense than. "A zillion(example date don't take it seriously) all humans swung from trees and picked bugs out of each others hair, then, after another million years, the ape creatures slowly started walking upright and getting smarter, until finally they became the humans we see today.
Riiiiiight.......
and you do realize that most people do not like being called "animals" that, in my oppinion, is offensive. I'm NOT an animal. I'm a human being and it's illegal to perform experiments on humans.
Wonko, you do realize that at one time all the land on earth was connected at one point don't you? and do you also realize that people have found fossils of sea creatures on mountain peaks in places? There is only one explaination for this, a Flood.
Razor, I'm sure SOME of the Evolutionary things are real like maybe all the cats came from one other cat but it was
still a cat.
As for the thing with scientists and apes. No I DON'T want them to really do it. I was speaking metaphorically.
Refer back in this post to humans and apes sharing chromosomes. Disprove that, then get back to me.
I explained why apes today are still apes today in a previous post. Please take the time to read it.
If you can accept that microbes can change their genetic makeup to become resistant to anti-biotics, then you essentially accept macro evolution.
Micro evolution, tiny changes such as differences in skin pigmentation or immunities from one generation to the next can build up over time. Macro evolution is simply Micro evolution over immense time scales.
If you reject macro evolution, you also reject micro evolution and thus have to explain why anti-biotic resistant bacteria has appeared from nowhere.
If evolution only applies to some life forms and not others, why not? What makes these life forms special? There is nothing special about human DNA. There is nothing special about human cells. There is nothing particularly remarkable about human physiology. The only thing that truly sets us apart is that our wetware works differently to most animals, most likely due to socialization.
I apologise if you found my statement offensive. I must ask however, how are we not animals? What unique trait sets us apart? Our muscles work identically. Our bones form and work identically. Our method of prorogation is identical. We respire the same gasses, consume similar foods, have near identical chemical processes occurring at all times within our bodies.
The only thing that sets humans apart from animals is the concept of a soul which cannot be perceived or measured or proven to exist.
It is illegal to perform experiments on humans (unless they have donated their corpse for purposes of science) because it is morally reprehensible to annihilate cogniscant life for any reason. This is why I am against "Whale Research" and the killing of dolphins.
You are correct in that all life on earth was once connected. You have however arrived at the incorrect solution. The world is said to have flooded and covered the highest mountains to a depth of 15 cubits.
The highest mountain on Earth is Mount Everest at 8848 meters. Where did all that water go? That's an IMMENSE amount of water. More then could possibly be frozen. In fact, water expands when it is frozen (Proof: Stick a can of drink in the freezer. I am not responsible for the subsequent mess.) so it could never have concentrated back at the poles.
The reason one finds fossils on the highest mountains on earth is because the fossils formed when said mountains were once ocean floors. Look up plate tectonics and how continental plates slide, bump and grind against one another to recycle rock and carbon dioxide, build mountain ranges, destroy old rock and help to keep our planet livable.
If you dont believe that plate tectonics is real, look at the coastlines of Africa and South America. You can practically slot them together. That's because, at one point, long ago, these continents were joined and drifted apart over the long eons to create the south atlantic.
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You make a very interesting point when you say "what would happen if you used your whole brain all the time?" If you use your whole brain, I believe that you will be able to clearly see that there is a very deep meaning to life and a higher power. When I have whole-brain moments I am able to see life with my emotions, my common sense, and my deeper spritual meaning all together. Those are the best of times, and acording to the Bible those are the times, in the stillness and peace, when God will make himself known to you.
I think this is highly dependent on personal interpretation. If I had to conjecture, I would guess that a firmer grasp of physical reality would take place as the brain finally melds the threads of all human knowledge into a cohesive whole with the ability to correlate old and new information in new and exciting ways leading to radical new and higher orders of knowledge, such as truly grasping relativity or a grand unified theory.
Wonko, I'd be most interested to peruse the source of your info that Christianity/Islam/Judaism had common roots in hinduism. It sounds fascinating.
Final Note as I trudge off to bed at 4 AM (Again!), please supply geological proof that there was a flood.
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Fixed a broken link. No content was altered.
